erwin
Good afternoon,
As I can’t quite make up my mind between black and white, colour and digital, and I wouldn’t want to be without analogue photography and my darkroom, I’ve decided to shoot on colour film, carry out the development myself and do whatever I like with it. That means I can make black-and-white enlargements from it, scan it, and so on. I’ve tried making a colour negative into a black-and-white enlargement before, but I can’t really remember the result. I’ve now read that it’s not that straightforward, but that there is special paper or film available for this. Can anyone help me or give me some tips?
Best regards,
Justus
Tandemfahren
Hi Justus,
For that, you’d need panchromatic photographic paper, which hasn’t been available for quite some time now.
Special films – what do you mean by that? A colour film is a colour film.
If you don’t want to go down the digital route (scanner), your only option is black-and-white film for black-and-white. Or just shoot digitally straight away.
So: one or the other.
Best regards,
Frank
Junkom
Hi,
I’m not entirely sure what you’re aiming for here, but yes, you can print colour film onto standard black-and-white paper.
I’ve done it myself before and the results are okay.
However, the exposure times are incredibly long and the contrast is very low, so you’ll need to use a strong filter.
This is because there aren’t really any proper... I don’t know what... in colour film, so the light has to somehow squeeze through the gaps in the colour negative.
That’s a very technical explanation, of course, but you’ve got the answer you were looking for.
Yes, you can, and no, you don’t need special paper.
It would be better, but it’s no longer available.
Best regards...
erwin
Hello
Thanks for your replies. I’ll give it another go and then decide whether the quality is good enough for me. If not, I’ll just end up with two cameras after all :)
Have a lovely evening...
piu58
I used to do this when I was younger. The orange mask results in very long exposure times, and it’s likely to interfere with the contrast control of multigrade paper. Back then, I used fixed-grade baryta paper.
This leads to significant shifts in grey tones. It’s still acceptable for landscape and architectural shots, but skin blemishes are heavily emphasised. People in the photos look old.
This is no substitute for a proper black-and-white photograph, merely a stopgap.
bernhardmangelsgmxde
Yeah, well, it works. I did a few prints back when I was starting out, on multigrade paper. It’s a bit flat, but that’s nothing to worry about – I didn’t really have a proper handle on the contrasts back then anyway. With a colour mixing head, I’d turn up the cyan until the base is colourless in the projection. Then the gradation conversion should also be relatively controllable. (In theory, at least – I don’t have any practical experience with that.)
Clemens
I’ve already written something about this
here. However, due to a lack of time (contrary to what I said at the time), my experiments haven’t progressed very far yet; the roll is currently lying dormant in the freezer.
ThomasPauly
An unmasked colour film (Rollei Digiscan CN 200) is better suited to this purpose than a masked one. The absence of the mask alleviates two problems:
(a) With gradient-converting papers, the mask affects the gradient, as described above.
(b) Fixed-gradation papers are desensitised, i.e. blue-sensitive. However, a considerable proportion of the blue component is absorbed by the orange mask. Exposure times are therefore initially long, and laboratory exposure meters calibrated for black and white film do not provide values that are even remotely useful.
Even unmasked colour film appears rather flat on gradation converter paper and, in my experience, requires at least gradient 4, which in turn makes the grain stand out. Fixed-grade paper performs better.
However, the following disadvantages cannot be eliminated:
(a) The conversion of colours into brightness values is not tonally accurate; this would only be possible with Panchromatic positive material, which is no longer available.
(B) Due to their more complex layer structure, colour films are always less sharp than black-and-white films of the same speed.
It remains to be mentioned that Rollei Digibase CN 200 (cut from Agfa Aviphot aerial photography film) is not the finest-grained colour film in its sensitivity class. Furthermore, without the mask, its colour-correcting effect is naturally absent. The reproduction is reminiscent of the Agfa CN 17 of the 1960s.
Although the negatives allow for both colour and black and white positives, they are not technically optimal in either case. Nevertheless, the results can be interesting if one likes the nostalgic visual effect of the colour positives or the surprising translation of colours into the grey tones of the black and white positives.
tepe
Clemens
Hello tepe,
That would only be possible with Panchromatic positive film, which is no longer available.
That’s not entirely true, it’s just not that easy to get hold of.
Here’s
a reminder of my posts from 30 October and 20 December 2009.
The paper is now called ILFORD GALERIE DIGITAL SILVER and is available in glossy and pearl finishes, as well as baryta (though only in rolls 50.8 cm wide or wider).
Have a look here:
Photographic Papers Digital
Gut Licht,
Clemens
thomas_l
Well, I’ve tried that too. In principle, it works without any problems, though the exposure times are quite long, as others have already mentioned here. The grey-scale reproduction isn’t exact, of course, because the papers are insensitive to red. That isn’t necessarily a disadvantage – after all, there are orthochromatic films too – but you have to bear in mind that it’s just not the same as usual ;-)
You can counteract the low gradient by using a neutral density filter and adding magenta. However, this isn’t really ideal (in most cases).
I’ve never tried this with panchromatic paper. In theory, it should work; based purely on a hunch, the results should somehow have the characteristics of an XP2 or BW400CN. But I’ve no idea if that’s actually the case.
Best regards, Thomas
ThomasPauly
Thank you very much, Clemens, for the information – I’ve learnt something new.
With the (more or less) panchromatic material, it should also be possible to filter colour negatives onto black-and-white paper during enlargement, thereby darkening blue skies, lightening the green of leaves, etc., thus replicating in the darkroom what happens with original black-and-white photographs using filters. This way, one can also interpret the same negative in different ways retrospectively.
Perhaps a manufacturer might be interested in repackaging the Ilford roll film as sheet film suitable for home labs. Technically, they should certainly be able to do this in Bad Saarow...
Best regards
tepe
thomas_l
Anyone who owns one of those things for cutting paper should be technically capable of doing so.
Gast
Perhaps Clemes might be able to delegate some of his responsibilities. That would certainly make for some interesting experiments across the board.
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Best wishes, Olaf
