klaus123
Hello
When developing films and photos, I’d like to have a tap that provides a constant flow of water at 20°C.
Does anyone know of a water tank or instantaneous water heater (preferably 220V) that can be reliably set to 20°C?
Best regards
Klaus
mdeutgen
Klaus,
To answer that, you’d need to tell us what flow rates you’re looking for.
My idea is simply to use a mixer tap for the shower, but as far as I recall, these require a minimum flow rate to function properly. Why not ask your trusted plumber about this, or alternatively check with the relevant manufacturers of taps (Hansa, Grohe, Kludi) and/or storage tanks (StiebelEltron springs to mind first).
Martin
Wolf_XL
...conventional mixer taps for baths and showers are not suitable. Their temperature control range usually only starts at around 30°C... Instantaneous water heaters are also unsuitable – at least the models I am familiar with do not have internal temperature control. They simply switch between two heating settings, depending on the flow rate. The temperature is controlled by the tap...
Tandemfahren
Hi Klaus,
In "Way Beyond Monochrome", Ralph Lambrecht mentioned an electronically controlled mixing valve called the "Hass Intellifaucet".
Have a look at that. In my humble opinion, instantaneous water heaters and the like are certainly not capable of delivering a constant flow of water at 20 °C ±0.5 °C; after all, that’s not what they’re designed for.
Good luck
Frank
AchimBauer
Hi Klaus,
Having set myself the goal of getting back into the lab by the end of the year – assuming no further disasters occur – I’ve been thinking about this too.
DIY stores sell temperature-controlled mixer taps; I’m not sure exactly how they work, but the best thing to do is have a look at one of these, note down the manufacturer’s address from the packaging, email them and hope they reply.
Option 2: Buy a ‘Grün Boiler’ and, after testing it, set it to 20 degrees, provided it can be adjusted to that level.
Option 3: Experiment with an aquarium filter. There are aquarium filters with a heater, which are the best way to get the temperature exactly to 20 degrees; if necessary, use a buffer tank such as an insulated cider barrel, a rainwater tank or a broken boiler, as that’s already insulated. Or simply leave a rainwater tank in your flat and wait until it reaches room temperature.
Regards, Achim
Urnes
Let’s be honest, if you’re involved in film development, there are surely a thousand and one things more important than running water at 20°C. To bring the developer, stop bath and fixer up to temperature, you need a water bath. So fill a measuring flask with developer, place it in a larger container of warm water, and wait until it reaches 20°C. For rinsing, you don’t need it to be 20°C anymore. Lukewarm water is enough. Slightly warmer water makes rinsing easier, depending on the process. I admit that running water has its charm, but the Ilford method of changing the water three times is sufficient. Surprisingly, with Galerie Washaid, this is also sufficient for baryta prints. Otherwise, you can roughly adjust the temperature using the mixer tap. With running tap water – I assume you’re not using demineralised water – you should also consider what might leach from the water into the material, i.e. adding water rather than rinsing it out. You also need to consider how to cool the water in summer when it’s warmer than 20°C. This also applies to the paper developer in a warm darkroom. I usually heat the developer to 22°C and then work by eye until it has cooled down to 19°C. This isn’t relevant for exhibition prints, though, because I don’t develop more than two per session anyway. There is, however, one process where I really do need temperature control, and that’s lith printing – ideally around 30°C in the developer. Water temperature isn’t that relevant, provided it’s not below 14°C; lukewarm is sufficient. The only thing that helps then is a heating plate, such as one from Kaiser; I haven’t tried a terrarium heating mat yet, and water baths with aquarium heating rods don’t work because of the small amount of water. That was really cold – I’ve tried it. Conclusion: I’d rather take photos than do plumbing.
Regards, Sven.
AchimBauer
Hi Klaus,
If you don’t want to take Sven’s advice on board because you need to keep the temperature at 20 degrees, I’ve got another idea. I was just in my boiler room when I thought of the 3-way mixers.
You could ask a heating engineer about 3-way mixers; they should be available for heating systems in detached houses too, as they’re needed to raise the return temperature for solid fuel boilers. (I’ve got one myself, but unfortunately it’s mechanically controlled.) In that size range, they still have inch connections, but it should work. And the controls are often available as standard. So it’s just a question of price. I used to have some documentation on this; I had to learn about it at one point. Basically, hot and cold water are mixed – with the ratio of hot to cold water adjusted continuously – until the correct temperature is achieved at the outlet.
Best to ask a heating engineer.
Regards, Achim
klaus123
Hello
Thanks for your tips – I’ve now sorted the issue with a small, adjustable instantaneous water heater that can be set electronically to 20°C. It’s also better for the kitchen than the previous 5-litre under-sink unit.
Best regards
Klaus
Xenar
Hi Klaus,
Could you please let me know the make and model of the instantaneous water heater? I need to add that to my order as well.
Thanks,
Volker
klaus123
Hi Klaus,
Could you please let me know the make and model of the instantaneous water heater? I need something similar for my kitchen as well.
Thanks,
Volker
It’s a Clage – in combination with the kitchen unit, it’s 280
Xenar
Hi Klaus,
Thanks a lot – I’ll have to have a proper look at it this weekend; I’m off again in a flash! I’m no stranger to plumbing and electrical work; I did all the interior fitting-out of my own home myself.
Best regards, Volker
Olivinyl
Hello everyone,
I use a Vaillant VED 21 E LCD instantaneous water heater (21 kW at 380/400 volts) for my hot water supply.
The unit is fully electronic and can be adjusted in 0.5°C increments from 20°C to 60°C. The temperature is shown on an LCD display.
The outlet temperature is very accurate!
The unit can also be controlled via a separate wireless remote control. The remote also has a display and operates bidirectionally.
However, it should not be forgotten that the length of the pipework affects the water temperature, as the water pipe from the unit to the tap must also be heated!
Short or very short pipework would be advantageous.
My DLE is located in the basement and there is approximately 6 metres of insulated copper pipework to the kitchen.
I usually fill a stackable box with about 10–12 litres of water, which I use for development, mixing and washing.
I set the unit to 21°C and start filling the box. By the time it’s almost full, the temperature is at 20°C ±0.5°.
Best regards, Oliver
