frau_ett
Hello fellow photography enthusiasts,
I made a great find at a flea market today. I bought a few packs of old photographic paper, still in their original packaging, and wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with them and might be able to share a tip or two.
The brands include Agfa Brovira, Leonar Lumarto, Mimosa Kiel contact paper, Argenta Novum, etc.
I’d also love to know what makes contact paper so special.
Wishing you all a lovely Easter Sunday, Eva.
Godot
I’d also like to know what makes contact paper so special.
Hello Eva,
Originally, all photographic paper was contact paper or even copy paper, as enlargers weren’t commonplace. Prints were therefore exposed to daylight. Your Mimosa contact paper is certainly designed for artificial light, but it’s still so insensitive that it’s rather unsuitable for enlargers.
In short, the low speed is probably the main feature, apart from the perhaps cool look of the prints. It’s developed in a fairly standard way (as far as I know, but there are older experts here who know the exact details) – and that can actually still work.
Happy Holidays,
Stefan.
frau_ett
Hi, I’ve just had a go at a few test prints. I’m conducting development with Tetenal and a standard fixer. All the prints have come out badly :-(
They’ve all got that lovely colour, but you can’t make out any of the subjects.
Is this a sign that the paper is actually too old?!?!
I’m a bit at a loss.
Best wishes, Eva
frau_ett
Right, after a bit of trial and error, I’ve found the problem. The paper needs loads of light. I just tried performing an exposure on the photo using a coin on it in daylight, and then I knew that the paper wasn’t ruined, at least. The red light didn’t cause any damage at all. So I worked by process of elimination and now I’ve got two really nice photos. :-)
Does anyone else happen to develop photos using such old-fashioned photographic paper?
Any experiences are always welcome.
Best wishes, Eva
Godot
The paper needs so much light.
Yes,
that’s exactly what I was trying to say with all those words. :blink:
Wolfgg
Hello Eva,
I started using contact sheets about 50 years ago. I had a ‘contact copier’ for this – it was a wooden box about 40 cm high, with a glass plate measuring approx. 20 x 30 cm on top and a two-part pressure lid, which was used to press the contact paper and negative together. Inside the box was a red lamp and an exposure lamp with a minimum of 40 W. The exposure times were around 10–20 seconds. Development was carried out in the same way as today, and the chemicals were the same as they are today.
With the more sensitive enlargement papers, you have to expect a higher degree of fog depending on their age.
Regards, Wolfgang
Urnes
Hi Eva,
Contact copying should work even in normal daylight or ambient light. Especially if the paper is that old. So put the paper in a (picture) frame, place the negative on top and give it a go. It works well with 18x24 or 8x10" negatives.
Otherwise, old paper is generally good for making photograms. So just lay it on the table, put a few things on top and see what happens. Transparent or semi-transparent objects work really well too. Over time, you can rearrange the objects and, once you’re happy with the result, simply fix the image.
Regards, Sven.
AchimBauer
Hi Eva,
I’ve read your post quite a few times, as I too have several boxes of old photographic paper – some from when I used to run a darkroom, and some from a photo shop that went out of business. As I want to get back into darkroom work (I’d planned to start today) and didn’t feel like continuing my film test project (which film do I want to use in future) today, I suddenly felt the urge to finally make my darkroom light-tight. That was the final step.
Then I got the urge to simply start soaking photographic paper in the trays again. I’d ordered films, new paper and chemicals. But I’m wondering, what about the old paper?
So I dug out the chemicals. I think I’ve got Adofix; it’s a liquid concentrate, no problem. But I’d ordered Adotol Konstant as a paper developer. A powder developer for 5 litres. But I only have 3 litres’ worth of brown bottles.
So I had a look in the loft (the Swabian version of the attic); there’s still a box in there with all sorts of things, and there I found two sachets of Tetenal Part 1 and Part 2 with ‘Neutralton’. The word ‘Neutralton’ told me it might be a paper developer.
The sachets had been opened and were originally for 5 litres. So I switched on the magnetic stirrer, added 1 litre of water that felt warm, and sprinkled in Part 1 powder by eye, then Part 2 until it started to smell like developer. Finally, I added a few drops of Moersch Restrainer and that was it.
Then I started with Tura Multikontrast from the roll; I thought that was the paper I’d stopped using back then. But it was a roll in its original packaging. I put Filter 3 in the drawer, as it was to hand, measured the exposure and entered the medium factor. Result: uniform grey. Then I tried Fotografik, placed my scissors on the image and exposed it, but the scissors were grey, the background was grey.
I carried on in the same vein with various Argentum papers; some showed a bit of an image, and with plenty of exposure a little more came through, but still grey on grey. The same with Leonar and Labaphot – all unusable – until I came across my Orwo, still in its original state-owned packaging, which, despite a specially devised developer based on a strictly secret formula, produced a reasonably usable result. After the third print, I had a perfect result. After that, I plucked up the courage to try out specialist materials, starting with Anofot Plaques Photographiques Positives sur Aluminium with a gradient of 3. These are coated aluminium plates. Easy to handle; the part that doesn’t look like metal is the emulsion layer. The result could be improved if there were enough material for experimentation. Next came Tura Fotoleine, originally made in Düren. A problematic material (in the truest sense of the word); you can’t see where the emulsion is, and in the developer it goes soft and creases, so you have to be careful (yes, ‘a’ and ‘s’ are very close together) to ensure it’s developed properly. It feels slippery and floppy, but from the third attempt onwards it produced superb results.
That was it for today. I’ve got lots of other materials, but unfortunately mostly in large formats, including paper from Mimosa. They look promising, as they’re really ancient.
I suspect that the papers that just turn grey are ones with developer substances embedded in them, and the ones where it works are without.
So now you know, you’re not the only one working with these crazy old papers.
I’d never have done it if I hadn’t had the material. I’d never have gone out and bought old paper myself!!!!!!!!!
But that bit about Orwo gives me food for thought.
Regards, Achim
MirkoBoeddecker
I suspect that the papers that just turn grey are those containing developer substances. And the ones that work without
Hello Achim,
Your statement may well be correct (as modern papers have generally contained developer substances since 1990), but I do not believe the embedded developers are the cause.
Developer substances actually have an image-stabilising effect in the paper emulsion.
In my opinion, the real cause lies in a combination of factors.
1) Factor: Paper sensitivity
2) Factor: Production date prior to 1991
The more sensitive a paper is, the faster it turns grey, and indeed disproportionately so to its speed. It may therefore be the case that a very slow paper (contact paper) lasts 100 years (though of course it is a matter of definition as to what is still considered usable) and a modern high-speed paper, which has five times the speed, lasts only 3–4 years.
ORWO paper has high speed (about half that of modern papers) and is durable, as during the GDR era they maintained established methods and achieved incredibly long-running production runs for the emulsions. They had their emulsion perfectly under control and, as there was no competition, there was no need to constantly make half-baked improvements just to provide ammunition for the marketing department.
But with the fall of the Berlin Wall, that was all over. Moreover, the good stabilizers (cadmium, mercury and the like) were no longer allowed to be used, even though they were present in such small quantities in the formulations that the relative proportion in the finished product would have been below the natural mercury content of the environment. But they can be very stubborn about such things in Brussels. It’s more of an agricultural affair over there in Brussels, after all. They probably don’t understand the concept of relativity there.
Had ORWO continued production under the environmental regulations to which Agfa was already subject at the time, the paper would certainly not have had a longer shelf life.
With the substitute stabilizers that are still permitted today, nobody gets much beyond three years (for perfect quality without any grey haze). But since, on the other hand, there’s no need to hoard anymore these days, I think everyone can cope with only being able to stock up for three years :-)
Enjoy your time in the darkroom,
Mirko
AchimBauer
Hello, friends of Lictes,
A follow-up to my last post!
The whole thing was planned as a complete nonsense experiment, with the sensible expectation that I’d only manage to take a few photos, but also with the thought: ‘Why not give it a proper go?’ Even the ancient developer, put together on a whim, was actually a bit of a daft idea. But unfortunately, the whole thing got completely out of hand!!! The prints on the original state-owned film were superb. The pure white unexposed area is hardly down to the approx. 5 to 10 drops of retainer. And unfortunately, I don’t just have vintage equipment but also modern gear – namely a new scanner – and at the moment it’s still rendering everything a bit too dark. It’s not a photo scanner either, but a book scanner. Nevertheless, here are two examples: first the original state-owned film from Wolfen, and then the original UK film from Ilford – the most modern in my hysterical collection. But even all of this is still usable; you can use it to decorate your photo display cabinet nicely (not with the paper, but with the boxes).
Oh yes, the attachments are PDFs.
