frau_ett
Hello to all forum members,
I’m currently trying my hand at lith printing and would be grateful if anyone with experience of using the Easylith + Wephota DD combination could drop me a line.
I’ve been experimenting a bit and would like to know, for example, how to bring out the details in an image more effectively.
Is it better to play around with the aperture or the exposure time?
Best regards,
Frau_ett
Urnes
Hello to all forum members,
I’m currently trying my hand at lith printing and would be grateful if anyone with experience of using the Easylith + Wephota DD combination could drop me a line.
I’ve been experimenting a bit and would like to know, for example, how to bring out the details in an image more effectively.
Is it better to play around with the aperture or the exposure time?
Best regards,
Frau_ett
Hello,
I think you need to clarify your question a bit. I haven’t worked with DD yet. I have with Easylith. Generally speaking, it doesn’t matter whether you open the aperture or increase the exposure time. For the colour, the ratio of dilution to exposure time is crucial. If the image is getting too dark in the shadows, you need to take it out sooner and stop immediately. You can also stop the process partially if you want the density of certain areas to be higher.
Regards, Sven.
frau_ett
Hello to all forum members,
I’m currently trying my hand at lith printing and would be grateful if anyone with experience of using the Easylith + Wephota DD combination could drop me a line.
I’ve been experimenting a bit and would like to know, for example, how to bring out the details in an image more effectively.
Is it better to play around with the aperture or the exposure time?
Best regards,
Frau_ett
Hello,
I think you need to clarify your question a bit. I haven’t worked with DD yet. I have with Easylith. Generally speaking, it doesn’t matter whether you open the aperture or increase the exposure time. For the colour, the ratio of dilution to exposure time is crucial. If the image is getting too dark in the shadows, you need to take it out sooner and stop immediately. You can also stop the process in parts if you want the density of certain areas to be higher.
Regards, Sven.
Thanks Sven for your quick reply. You’re right, I wasn’t precise enough. I’m actually trying to understand a bit better exactly what happens during lith printing and how I can influence it myself.
In black-and-white development, a second’s exposure time already plays a big role in how the image turns out.
I haven’t got a feel for this with lith printing yet. I did a few tests yesterday. One with the aperture wide open for 7 seconds, and then two stops down and another 7 seconds. The first image had serious flaws. The second, on the other hand, was too pale for my liking. I’d like more detail and more colour. So I gave it another go. Third stop down, but not 7 seconds like with my nice black-and-white shot, but 25 and 35 seconds. The result was that everything was very pale. But for my taste, it was already heading in the right direction, as the details were visible and there was much more colour.
Should I simply double or triple the exposure time? As I said, I haven’t quite got the hang of exposure times yet.
Best regards...
Urnes
So you’re sure your paper is suitable for lith printing. Lith printing requires a high silver content. Mr Moersch describes the technical details of the development process on his website. I’m assuming you’ve read it – after all, easylith is his creation too.
Now for the practical side. First, make a standard print from your negative, or a test strip, or whatever. In any case, you’ll have worked out your development time for a standard b/w process. If you want plenty of colour in your lith print, use a high dilution and plenty of light. Try 1+1+50. You’ve prepared the developer and brought it to a temperature of 24 to 30 degrees. Now extend your calculated development time by 2 stops. So you quadruple the time. The longer the time, the less each individual second ultimately matters. I often end up with times in the minutes. Then you perform exposure with white light and put the print into the developer. So, now you stand there and wait and shake and wait. With my Polywarmton, the first image traces appear after about 8 minutes (with other combinations it can sometimes take as long as 20 minutes); now you keep looking at your image and you notice that the blacks are getting darker and darker, and faster and faster. So you’re now developing by eye, essentially. When you think you’re happy with the result, take it out of the developer and pop it straight into the stop bath, then fix it. It takes a bit of practice. The prints are a little lighter in daylight and not quite as dense as they appear under red light. It’s also possible that the colour will shift again once the print is completely dry. Polywarmton looks rather yellow to greenish when wet, but turns a lovely shade of pink when dry.
Regards, Sven.
PS: I forgot to mention. If your image was too pale, you simply need to leave it in the developer for longer. At some point, the development speeds up. As I said, you can also wait 25 minutes. And always keep the developer warm! Very important!
frau_ett
Hi Sven,
Thanks for your tips. Yes, I’m well aware of Moersch’s website, of course, and I’ve actually been in touch with him personally.
I was very patient yesterday and developed the pale images for just under an hour in the developer, agitating them and waiting :-)
When do you think the Easylith will be ready? Mine has turned orange-red again and I don’t know to what extent it will even work anymore?!?!
Have a lovely day...
frau_ett
Oh, I’ve got one more question. What do you mean by ‘two stops up = quadrupling the exposure time’?
Does increasing the aperture by two stops mean the exposure time quadruples? As you can see, I’m not very familiar with photography jargon yet.
Best wishes, Eva
Urnes
Yes, if you open the aperture by one stop, you get twice the amount of light. If you open it by another stop, the amount of light doubles again. So with a 2-stop aperture, the light quadruples; alternatively, you can simply double the exposure time twice (for example, if the exposure is 4 seconds, you double it to 8 seconds and then again to 16 seconds).
An hour is actually quite a long time. So you always need to prepare a fresh batch of developer. It depletes very quickly in the tray. That’s not enough for more than one proper session. So you prepare the correct amount just before development. What you can do is prepare only half the amount fresh and top up the residue with old ‘brown’ developer. Then it’s ready more quickly. And you need heat. You should definitely have 24°C and not go below that; 26 or 28 is better. The temperature in the cellar always drops quickly, which is why I can’t manage without a heating pad. Otherwise, Easylith was relatively quick. With LP, I’ve always had times of around 20–25 minutes with Polywarmton; with Easylith, it was down to just 8–10 minutes.
Regards, Sven.
michael-kielgmxnet
Hello Eva,
The paper you’re using is heavy-duty document paper, so it’s not exactly your run-of-the-mill material. You’ll probably get the best results with a combination of a long exposure time and a dilute developer.
I’m a beginner at lith printing myself, but I’ve already successfully processed Orwo paper, specifically BBN111. I prepared the developer at a dilution of 1:50, and the exposure time was four times as long as for a normal print.
However, the print took about 35 minutes to develop! It’s quite possible that the paper you’re using requires similar development times.
Best regards, Michael
P.S. If you’ve got anything presentable, I’d be very interested to see it :rolleyes:
frau_ett
Hi Sven, Hi Michael,
Thanks for all your suggestions. It really shows that I’m still very new to lith printing. At first, I couldn’t believe that developer could go off so quickly. And I didn’t really have to pay much attention to the temperature when conducting black-and-white development either.
I only have a very small, makeshift ‘darkroom’ in the bathroom. :-) So no heating plate, not even a table :-)
I’ll give it all a go anyway and upload my results to you over the next few days.
Do you perhaps have any advice regarding the paper? Maybe something for ‘beginners’ where you can have a sense of achievement right from the start?
Sunny regards,
Eva
michael-kielgmxnet
Hello Eva,
Fomatone MG is a lovely lith paper. It’s relatively easy to work with and produces beautiful colour results, depending on the processing and exposure. What’s more, it’s still relatively affordable.
Best regards,
Michael
Urnes
Hi Eva,
As far as the paper is concerned, I’d agree with Michael. That’ll probably be the next paper I try once I’ve run out of Polywarmton. On Tim Rudman’s website
http://www.timrudman.com/, you can sign up to the mailing list, and you’ll always receive the latest information on lithography materials.
As for the temperature, you could simply try using a water bath around your developing tray.
Regards, Sven
frau_ett
Hi Eva,
As for the paper, I’d agree with Michael. That’ll probably be the next paper I try once I’ve run out of Polywarmton. On Tim Rudman’s website
http://www.timrudman.com/, you can sign up to the mailing list, and you’ll always receive the latest information on lithography materials.
As for the temperature, you could simply try placing a water bath around your developing tray.
Regards, Sven
Yes, that’s of course a fairly simple solution to the temperature problem. As soon as I have time, I’ll try out all the advice and tips.
Does it make a difference in principle whether I quadruple the exposure time of my b&w print (i.e. leave the aperture the same as for b&w exposure) or whether I stop down two stops but keep the b&w print’s exposure time?
I’ve at least read that a long exposure time and high dilution lead to more colour, whilst a short (but strong) exposure plus a rich developer results in high contrast and less colour.
Have a lovely weekend, both of you,
Eva
michael-kielgmxnet
Hello Eva,
In theory, it doesn’t matter whether you control the exposure by extending the exposure time or by opening the aperture; in both cases, the amount of light reaching the paper increases. So much for the theory... in practice, the Schwarzschild effect also comes into play. This causes the response to become non-linear at long exposure times, meaning that in reality you may need to expose for longer to actually achieve double or quadruple the exposure. It is therefore advisable to make the ‘reference print’ with the aperture closed down significantly (e.g. f/16), and then open the aperture by two stops (to f/8) for the lith print, whilst maintaining the same exposure time.
TR
I’ll just jump in here, especially as I’ve been reading about such long development times.
I also like to use Easylith.
However, I use it in a more concentrated form: 1+15, and I also print on the lovely Fomatone. I keep the temperature at around 20 degrees Celsius, just as with a ‘normal’ print, or rather, I don’t worry about it. The colour saturation is high and I need about 3–5 minutes per image. I also expose at 4 times the standard exposure time. The solution lasts (due to the high concentration) an estimated 2–3 hours. Waiting 20 minutes for the first details to appear wouldn’t suit me. Give my ‘factor combination’ a try. I must say, however, that with the subjects in question, I’m not looking for the finest details to still be visible. I tend to use Lith only for ‘bold’ images or subjects. I keep the development under control by holding a red light lamp directly over the tray when things get serious (the Fomatone doesn’t mind this – at least in my case). To check in the dim red light whether black is really black yet, I hold a small piece of black foil next to it for direct comparison (a piece of the foil the paper is wrapped in).
frau_ett
Good morning,
It’s great to see more and more people getting involved.
Which Fomatone MG paper do you use? PE or baryta?
Does anyone have a sample photo that really shows how colourful the Fomatone is?
I hope I can try out your advice soon, as my final thesis should really be my priority :-)
Have a lovely weekend,
Eva
TR
Good morning,
It’s great to see more and more people getting involved.
Which Fomatone MG paper do you use? PE or baryta?
Does anyone have a sample photo that really shows how colourful the Fomatone is?
I hope I can try out your advice soon, as my final thesis should really be my priority :-)
Have a lovely weekend,
Eva
Hi Eva,
Well, I’ve actually always used the PE version so far.
Here are two examples of my own – Easylith on Fomatone PE.
Regards, Thomas
Argh. I can’t insert images here. So here they are:
http://www.raatzional.de/kategorie-09.php
http://www.aphog.de/forum/download/file.php?id=4573
frau_ett
Hi Thomas,
I’ve had a look at your website straight away. I particularly like the photos of the chairs… I’ve always had a soft spot for textures.
I find choosing the right paper quite tricky, as I don’t really get the names like ‘Variant’, ‘Classic’ and so on. I’ll have a go at Fomatone soon. Where do you get your paper from? I’ve always had to order it in, as there isn’t much choice where I live.
Best wishes, Eva
frau_ett
Right, I’m going to grant Michael’s wish and show you what I get up to in my darkroom. So here are two results. By the way, these are my very first lith prints.
I took the first one with the aperture fully open (7 sec); the second, slightly brighter one, with the aperture at f/4 (7 sec).
Both were taken with Wephota and Easylith 1+1+20
Best regards...
MarcS
Hello Eva,
Wephota DD is certainly an interesting paper, but unfortunately it’s almost impossible to find these days, or only in 14x21 cm.
I’ve made a few prints using this paper and Moersch Lith SE5. I’ve only managed
2–3 prints with the EasyLith.
I perform the exposure on the DD 3.5 stops lighter; the first image appears after about 4 minutes and
it’s ready after about 7–8 minutes (using a mixture of 25ml + 25ml to 1000ml without additives)
20 degrees, 500ml goes into the tray and after every 6 prints, I regenerate with 250ml.
I particularly like the ADOX MCC; it’s also very well suited to lith printing.
You can get the papers here at FOTOIMPEX.
Regards
Marc
Enclosed are 2 Wephota DD prints
michael-kielgmxnet
The examples look really interesting – much more colourful than what I managed to get out of the Orwo BBN111.
@frau_ett: how is the texture of the paper achieved? It almost looks like linen fabric and has a really interesting look to it.
@MarcS: The queen is absolutely stunning... I assume that’s from the paper and not the film?
