C41 Stabi marks on the film - what to do?

Patrick · 2017-06-08T10:07:43+00:00

Hallo, Ich habe versucht, vor kurzer Zeit wieder Farbnegativfilme zu entwickeln. Die ersten Filme kamen perfekt aus der Entwicklungsdose. Die 2. Serie kam k...

Patrick

Hello, I recently tried developing colour negative film again. The first batch came out of the developing tank perfectly. The second batch turned out disastrously, with very stubborn drying marks on the top of the film. I’d be grateful for any advice on how I might avoid this ‘disaster’ in future. For the first development, I followed Rollei’s instructions to the letter: development, bleaching, fixing, stabilisation and drying. So I didn’t rinse the film between the fixing and stabilisation stages. The films look great, but some fixer got into the stabilisation bath. That’s why I decided to rinse the films with water between the fixer and stabiliser for the second batch. Disaster: the stabiliser bath foamed heavily, and the foam bubbles dried onto the film. I tried bathing the films in the stabiliser again, and also washing the films first before putting them back in the stabiliser, but the bubble marks always remained on the film when drying. Finally, I washed the films with water and a wetting agent, and still had to wipe the marks off afterwards with a cloth. Now to my questions: - Should films be washed with water between the fixer and the stabilizer, or not? (I’ve read online that some people do this) - If not, isn’t it a problem if the stabilizer bath gets contaminated by the fixer, especially if you use the same stabilizer bath several times? (According to Rollei, 1 litre of stabilizer is enough for 30 films, whereas 1 litre of developer is only good for 20 films) - Do the films need to be dried immediately after stabilisation (i.e. with the stabilizer still on them), or can the stabilizer be washed off? I’ve read that the stabilizer serves to stabilise the films (which sounds logical) and protect them from mould and so on. I’ve also read that if you remove it, the pigments would degrade more quickly... That’s why you should dry the films immediately after stabilising. However, this seems odd to me, as the fixer gets into the stabiliser and is thus left on the film. Perhaps I’m too influenced by the black-and-white process, where you try to remove every trace of chemicals from the films before drying them? Thanks in advance for your replies. Regards, Patrick.

MirkoBoeddecker

I carried out the first development exactly as per Rollei’s instructions: development, bleaching, fixing, stabilisation and drying. So I didn’t rinse the film between the fixing and stabilisation stages. The films look great, but some fixer did end up in the stabilisation bath.

? Does Rollei recommend not rinsing the films? ? There is nothing wrong with rinsing between the fixer and stabiliser. However, omitting this step seems questionable to me. ? The cause of the drying spots must lie elsewhere. ? Drying spots can be removed simply by rinsing in distilled water. ? Best regards, ? Mirko

Wolfgg

Hello Patrick! Standard procedure for C41: - After fixing, rinse (do not ‘wash’), as the fixer must be removed from the coated layer. - The final bath is the stabiliser, which, as the name suggests, is designed to stabilise the image information, i.e. to protect it against destructive influences, particularly from the environment (“polluted air”). The colorants in a colour film are in fact much more susceptible to degradation than the silver image in a black-and-white film. It makes sense to prepare the stabiliser using lime-free water (deionised or distilled water) and strictly in the prescribed concentration (i.e. under no circumstances at a higher concentration). Why don’t the second set of films look like the first? Think about what you did differently with the second batch. Best regards, Wolfgang

grommi

There are real battles of opinion when it comes to the stabiliser. The C-41 process was originally designed to run on machines without a fresh water connection. In that case, the stabiliser bath is important. € At home, however, you can also rinse thoroughly between each bath and at the end; this preserves the individual baths and makes the final stabiliser bath unnecessary. Whether you then finish with stabiliser, a wetting agent bath or A.dest is, in my opinion, irrelevant. For example, I just use fairly hard tap water with a splash of washing-up liquid and wipe slowly with light pressure using a kitchen paper towel rolled into a worm-like shape and folded into a V-shape, and I get the cleanest negatives you could wish for. The films are dry in half an hour. There’s absolutely no need to remove dust or scratches during scanning if you work cleanly otherwise. € I know there’ll be a lot of outcry now, but this method has consistently given me the best results by far for years, in both colour and black and white. There are also professional photographers who’ve been doing it this way for decades without any problems.

Wolfgg

Hi Grommi, Does this method using washing-up liquid also ensure the longest possible colour stability? That’s unfortunately the weak point of C41. As the exact additives in the washing-up liquid aren’t specified, I didn’t want to risk testing it on irreplaceable films to see whether they accelerate or delay colour fading. Our ancestors didn’t add something as ‘horrible’ as formalin to the colour stabiliser for no reason (I still use it today, just to be on the safe side). Regards Wolfgang

grommi

Hi Grommi, Does this method using washing-up liquid also ensure the longest possible colour stability? That’s unfortunately the weak point with C41 Wolfgang

I only use dermatologically tested washing-up liquid :-D € Joking aside, Wolfgang, as an amateur lab technician I can’t, of course, prove that this method offers the greatest possible longevity. Can you prove the opposite? In any case, I’m not aware of any drawbacks, not even from long-term users and professionals who really ought to know. € I simply cannot fathom how the tiniest amounts of unknown substances from a drop of washing-up liquid per quarter-litre, after removing the bulk of the residue from the negative, could have any effect whatsoever on the negatives. But as for whether I’d bathe my hands in water containing formalin – well, I rather doubt it. That said, the formalin content is much lower today than it was two or three decades ago, so we’re probably venturing into the realm of speculation regarding almost homeopathic dilutions. € And, with all due respect, I’ve never heard of fleas coughing. My self-developed negatives are certainly worlds better than the sometimes unbelievably filthy negatives from past decades that I have lying around here from mass-processing labs. However, it is surely well established that colour negatives, regardless of how they were processed, do not come close to matching the longevity of their black and white counterparts. Anyone wishing to delight future generations with their colour images will probably have to come up with something quite different. For example, prints using pigment inks – something any decent department store with a photography department does these days. From the point of view of archival safety, the hybrid process is clearly superior.