Patrick
Hello, I recently tried Adox Selenide with Ilford baryta paper, though I performed a heavy dilution (1:100) as I only wanted to improve the prints’ archival stability.
I have a few questions about this: how many prints can you tone with the working solution before it loses its effectiveness? Can you tell when it’s running out? How long does the working solution last? I only toned about 12 24x30.5 prints for 10 minutes.
Another question: at what dilution do you start to see colour changes with Ilford papers? At 1/100, nothing changed at all. The bottle says from 1/50, but as I understand it, there are significant differences depending on the paper. Many thanks for sharing your experiences!
Tandemfahren
Hi Patrick,
If you just want to improve the archival stability of your prints, I’d recommend Sistan or Adostab, as there’s absolutely no colour shift with those – at least, nothing I can see. As for just how archival the images really are, I’ll be able to tell you in a hundred years’ time...
I use Adox Selenid too (should actually be called ‘Selenite’, shouldn’t it?), but only at 1+9 to deepen the blacks. The effect is impressive, especially with Polywarmton, which the host here is so keen to save – sign up for the Polywarmton project!
Shadow details become clearer and the dynamic range increases, the tone in the low values cools down (a real walk in the park with Polywarm!), but you have to be careful, otherwise everything gets washed out and turns red. So keep the temperature and time under control. I manage it in about 20 seconds.
Fix and rinse afterwards; you can still use Sistan or Adostab at that stage.
I don’t know how long my mixture lasts; I haven’t managed to use it all up yet, and after three months I prefer to throw it away, just in case it goes mouldy or something.
Sorry, probably not the answer to your questions, but better than nobody saying anything at all...
Happy New Year to you all
Frank
Patrick
Frank,
Thanks for your reply. I can see I still need to do a bit more experimenting.
New question: How do you expose your paper? Normally or a bit lighter?
I’m always worried that deepening the shadows will result in an image that’s too dense, which is why I’ve never dared to tone my ‘beautiful’ prints at 1/10 – prints that I’ve often spent several hours on to get them just the way I wanted them...
Patrick.
Tandemfahren
Hi Patrick!
You’re absolutely right – exposure is a real challenge... Of course, you should expose the print with later selenium toner in mind. I’d say “a little” brighter, though that can, of course, cause the highlights to blow out. The toner doesn’t affect those areas.
You’ll get better results if you opt for a slightly softer filter instead. However, you should make full use of your paper’s original tonal range.
The selenium toner extends the range downwards by – well, let’s say half a stop, depending on the paper. You want to turn black into jet black, not light black from dark grey.
And with improved detail.
Paper development can be represented by a characteristic curve, just like with film. Selenium toner straightens the curve slightly at the dark end and steepens it; perhaps that helps you visualise it (it helped me).
But that won’t spare you from trial and error – you’ll probably end up crying into your pillow at night… I haven’t got through that stage yet either.
My working theory is that I want to have a few completely black areas in the image before toning, but keep their size very small (depending on the subject, of course).
The toning then separates the details better for me, without the blacks spreading. Which is certainly what happens if you tone for too long.
To visualise the optimal toning time, it also helps to expose a grey scale onto several strips of paper and tone them for different durations.
Take note of how the reproduction changes even after toning! The visual impression IN the toner bath is not a reliable guide!
It also seems to make a difference which developer you’ve used. I can’t quite understand why, but that’s how it is. Find your favourite combination and stick with it.
Mine: Gottes Papier (Polywarmton) + Tetenal Variospeed W. And MCP (Gottes Papier) + N113.
Wishing you happy darkroom nights,
Frank
Patrick
Frank,
Thank you very much for the detailed explanations – I’ll definitely have to give this a go!
Best regards,
Patrick.
GeorgK
Just by the way: re-fixing after using a selenium toner doesn't do any good (what would?).
Georg
Tandemfahren
Hi Georg,
You’re actually right about that – someone put the idea in my head and now I’m doing it this way because I’m not sure if something might go wrong if I don’t. The (second) fix is there anyway, so it doesn’t cost anything extra. Then Lavaquick and a rinse.
It would be nice, though, if someone who actually knows could clarify it. We’re all just guessing at the moment.
Best regards, perhaps from
Frank
GeorgK
Hi Frank,
You really only need to refix if, for example, you’ve bleached the film first for an indirect sulphur toning process. As there’s no guarantee that the sulphur toner will actually convert all the bleached silver into silver sulphide, you need to fix the film again after toning to wash out any remaining silver bromide. It may be that this was still lingering somewhere in the back of my mind.
With selenium toner, nothing is bleached, so repeated fixing is definitely not necessary. It puts unnecessary strain on the paper and is a waste of time.
Best regards,
Georg
