MarcS
Hello,
I’ve only started having a problem with a few films:
The film strips (6x6) are slightly darker or lighter, starting more or less from the middle
(see attached scan)
I’ve always developed using a 1-minute tilt-and-turn process
(HP5, Adox CHS 100, PanF) in Ultrafin Plus or Rodinal
After a test with a 3-second tilt-and-turn, the problem was resolved, but I’d
like to stick with the 1-minute process.
Does anyone have any idea how this effect might be caused?
Many thanks
Marc
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
Wolfram
Hi Marc,
If all the photos are like this, it looks as though one of the shutter curtains is too slow...
(Does your medium-format camera have a focal-plane shutter?)
If so, you’ll need to check which curtain exposes the right or left half of the frame.
The slower one might be slightly stuck. (?)
Bear in mind that the image on the film is upside down.
It doesn’t look as though there’s anything wrong with the cassette.
What’s the ‘trident’ doing in the sky on the left?
Is that a fault in your photo or did it appear afterwards?
I hope I’ve been able to help.
Regards,
Wolfram
Urnes
Hi Marc,
Well, if you ask me, I’d say your tank is only half full and the part that’s in the developer is being developed more intensely.
Regards, Sven.
MarcS
Hi Marc,
If all the photos are like this, it looks as though the shutter speed is too slow..... .
What’s that ‘trident’ doing in the sky on the left?
Regards,
Wolfram
Hi Wolfram,
I’ve already checked the shutter too; I thought of that as well,
but that’s not the issue – it’s a Hasselblad (central shutter)....
The "trident" is probably due to hasty drying, I suspect,
because of a quick troubleshooting process
Hi Sven,
I’ve never changed the quantities and they’re as they should be
(500ml Jobo can) Ultrafin Plus 1+4 / Rodinal 1+25
Could it possibly be caused by removing the film tape?
Sometimes I leave the tape on, sometimes I might have
ripped it off too roughly? In any case, I’ve never had this problem before
and if I tilt it for 3 seconds, it’s fine.....
Regards, Marc
StefanCaspari
Hi Marc!
I’m pretty sure the whole thing is a development issue.
Is the ‘darker’ side of the negative (i.e. the lighter side of the positive) also the side that’s at the bottom of the tank?
Why not try rotary development (you can simply roll the tank back and forth on the lab bench)?
Is the can really full right up to the top of the film spiral with the amount of liquid you’ve chosen?
Best regards, Stefan
Wolfram
Hi Marc,
I can’t think of anything else regarding the central shutter either.
So it must be down to the developing after all...
Do you use rotation, shaking or agitation?
Are ALL the negatives like this?
Best regards,
Wolfram
Xenar
Hello MarcS,
Your Hasselblad with a central shutter (in the lens) has an auxiliary shutter in front of the film plane (= in front of the magazine). As far as I know, this consists of two parts (halves?) that fold inwards (before the central shutter opens) and fold back out again (after you release the shutter button). If one of the halves is a bit sluggish when folding away, then you’ll be missing some light on that half of the negative (i.e. the negative is brighter there, whilst the positive is darker).
That wouldn’t explain, however, why the fault doesn’t occur when tilting constantly...
Regards,
Volker
Wolfram
Hello,
Oh, so you’re tilting it.
Did you read the wrong fill level on the scale?
New drum?
But you haven’t just started doing this yesterday.
At least the developer seems to be wetting one half more...... .
Unfortunately, the darkroom isn’t really my thing.
It’s a bit of a cop-out, but I get my film developed.
And back when I used to develop my own film, I worked with rotation...... .
I can’t help you with that.
I’m curious to see what comes out of it.
Regards
Wolfram
MarcS
First of all, thanks for the ideas,
I’ve now shot 3 HP5 rolls with the same exposure and subject
1) 1 min (tilt for 10 sec every minute) 9 mins (problem back again)
2) 30 sec. (tilt for 10 sec every 30 seconds) 7 mins (problem gone)
3) 3 sec. (tilting for 10 sec. every 3 seconds, i.e. constantly... phew) 5 minutes (problem gone)
All 20°C / Ultrafin Plus / Full, fresh canister / Fix 5 min. / Ilford rinse
I don’t understand it, but it seems I just can’t stick to 1 min?
Best regards
Marc
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Marc,
Someone asked earlier what number you read off the can.
There is a figure ‘as it should be’ for tilting and a figure ‘as it should be’ for rotation.
The fill level for rotation isn’t enough for tilting!
Given that the problem disappears with more movement, in my view this all points to there being too little developer in the tank.
The test is simple:
- Place an empty film canister in the tank
- Fill with water until the film is completely submerged
- Pour the water into a measuring cylinder and read the volume
- Compare the volume with the “correct amount”
- If necessary, use this volume as the “correct amount” in future
Best regards,
Mirko
MarcS
I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it, but it seems to me the answer to the puzzle is:
Carelessness and the kitchen renovation....
For the past two weeks, I’ve been storing the chemicals in a pantry (three cold walls,
and it’s got cooler over the last few days)
The water is set to 20 degrees, I poured in the cold developer and
didn’t stir it (it’ll all mix together anyway...)
Cold liquid naturally settles at the bottom!!!
I simply didn’t realise that, due to the new storage arrangement, the developer no longer maintains the previously relatively
exact 20 degrees, and after a test with properly tempered
developer, the 1-minute tilt method works too...
......apologies for making a mountain out of a molehill
Regards
Marc
ps...500ml developer solution in the Jobo 1520 (i.e. filled to the brim)
Wolfram
Hi Marc,
That’s a cheap solution, though!
And THAT will definitely never happen to you again.
It’s brave of you to admit it, though.
Best regards,
Wolfram
TR
P.S. ... 500ml of developer in the Jobo 1520 (i.e. filled to the brim)
Filling it to the brim is pointless if you leave the can upside down after every second shake (some of the developer runs into the lid and is missing from the ‘For’ section). Do you perhaps leave your can upside down sometimes too? That’s actually the mistake I made for years, although a higher shaking frequency, as in your case, compensates for this.
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Marc,
Hmm, I’m not quite convinced yet.
The transition from lower to higher density on the scan you’ve shown is very sharply defined.
I can’t imagine that such a precisely defined temperature boundary exists in your developer once it’s been poured into the tank.
It would mix together in the process. Even after each shake. For that to happen, your developer would have to form emulsions with different solutions that don’t mix (e.g. oil and water). Developers don’t contain such substances.
To me, the whole thing remains a mystery.
Best regards,
Mirko
MarcS
Hello T.R., Mirko,
That’s right, the temperature thing was a fluke, and T.R.’s tip
is spot on too!
I can’t quite remember where, but I read the method of “turning it upside down
after every second tilt” in a book somewhere and
used it occasionally, depending on the development time.
Perhaps that’s also a ‘chain reaction’...
The last development with the exact temperature and the can on the floor
worked again; I hope it stays that way
Many thanks
Marc
TR
and T.R.'s tip
is spot on too!
In that case, I assume that’s the reason. As I said, I was just as clueless as a bull in a china shop for a while, and my negatives looked very similar to yours (sharp transition), until I stopped leaving the can upside down. People always talk about tilting it, but you rarely find out exactly what that looks like.
Here
, quite a way back, I came up with the solution to the puzzle back then (not that long ago).
Regards, Thomas
StefanCaspari
and T.R.'s tip
is spot on too!
In that case, I’ll assume that’s the reason. As I said, for a while I was just as clueless as a bull in a china shop, and my negatives looked very similar to yours (sharp transition), until I stopped leaving the can upside down. People always talk about tilting it, but you rarely find out exactly what that looks like.
Here
, quite a long way back, I came up with the solution to the puzzle back then (not that long ago).
Regards, Thomas
Hello Thomas!
That sounds quite an adventure – ‘turning the can upside down after every second tilt’ – I don’t quite understand what the point of that is.....
But perhaps, in light of this phenomenon, we should explain the standard tilting process:
1. The amount of developer must be sufficient to ensure that the film in the spiral is completely (!) covered when the can is standing upright. At the same time, there should still be enough air in the can so that the developer can actually swirl around inside when the can is tilted.
2. The developer mixture must be mixed and brought to the correct temperature before (!) pouring it into the can.
3. Pour in quickly, and start timing once the developer has been completely poured in –
close the lid immediately(!), and tap the can several times from below with the palm of your hand, or tap the can against a surface to remove any air bubbles adhering to the film, ensuring the film is evenly wetted.
4. Then immediately tilt the can several times to ensure the developer is evenly distributed into the emulsion during the initial phase.
5. Then carry out the chosen tilting rhythm.
6. After development, pour out the developer quickly(!), and ideally pour in the stop bath quickly as well, to prevent uneven post-development or drainage streaks.
Only once the development is complete can you proceed a little more ‘casually’ with the fixer.
Warm regards from Munich: Stefan
TR
5. Then perform the chosen tilting sequence.
Well, what does tilting actually look like in practice? ;)
For me, tilting means changing the angle by 90° or 180°. But it would be better to call it ‘tilt, back again and settling’.
In fact, the completely wrong method of standing on my head worked for me for years, but only with a high tilting rhythm and on 35mm film.
StefanCaspari
5. Then perform the chosen rotation pattern.
Well, what does tilting actually look like in practice? ;)
For me, tilting means changing the angle by 90° or 180°. But it would be better to call it ‘tilt, back again and settling’.
In fact, the completely wrong method of standing on my head worked for me for years, but only with a high tilting rhythm and on 35mm film.
Hello Thomas!
You should tilt at least 90° to get anything moving in the canister.
But whatever you do, you should always do it the same way to achieve consistent results.
Best regards: Stefan
cfb_de
Well, but what does 'tilting' actually look like in practice? ;)
To me, 'tilting' means rotating a layer by 90° or 180°. But it would be more accurate to say 'tilt, flip back and settle'.
Hello Thomas,
It would indeed be very helpful if the can manufacturers designed their lids to be hemispherical! Then the question of “turning them upside down” wouldn’t arise anymore ;)
“
Tilting
” means “
rotating
at least once by 180° along a horizontal axis (a cylinder has an infinite number of these) and back again”. I perform this movement twice in total for each "tilt", but I also use development times adjusted accordingly (which is why the development times I specify are not necessarily applicable to others).
Best regards,
Franz
