Zeze
Hello everyone,
I’m looking for a developer and film combination that produces consistent, coarse-grained results, ideally on roll film. I’d also be happy with products that I can buy from Impex :)
My old formula back then was based on Tmax 3200 and Rodinal, but the old version from Agfa. Unfortunately, I don’t know how things stand with the current Rodinal; I’m completely out of the loop on this subject and am starting from scratch again – that’s generally how I feel about darkroom work at the moment :/
I’d also like to hear from fellow forum members about how Adox CHS films perform in practice: here too, which developer combination yields good results when it comes to printing. I’m more interested in negatives that print well; scanning isn’t my main focus – if I do scan anything at all, I prefer to scan the printed image. I’ve seen plenty of scanned CHS negatives on Flickr, but, as I said, how do they look when printed?
I’d be grateful for any tips :)
A bit about myself, as this is my first post: After what I considered successful darkroom work about 2.5 years ago, I left the dark side of the force and turned to digital photography; full-frame sensors made it possible. As I also started developing colour at that time and found it nothing but frustrating, digital photography came at just the right moment.
To cut a long story short: I’m back where I enjoyed it most and where I’m enjoying it again. From the mouse-pusher back to the tray-pusher, so to speak :(
I look forward to any replies and tips
Dieter
bernhardmangelsgmxde
Hello,
As far as I know, old Rodinal is the same as new Rodinal.
Best regards,
Bernhard
Hello everyone,
I’m looking for a developer and film combination that produces consistent, coarse-grained results, ideally on roll film. I’d also be happy with products that I can buy from Impex :)
My old mixture back then was based on Tmax 3200 and Rodinal, but the old one from Agfa. Unfortunately, I don’t know how things stand with the current Rodinal; I’m completely out of the loop on this subject and am starting from scratch again – that’s generally how I feel about darkroom work at the moment :/
I’d also like to hear from fellow forum members about how Adox CHS films perform in practice: here too, which developer combination yields good results when it comes to printing. I’m more interested in negatives that print well; scanning isn’t my main priority – if I do scan anything at all, I prefer to scan the printed image. I’ve seen plenty of scanned CHS negatives on Flickr, but, as I said, how do they look when printed?
I’d be grateful for any tips :)
A bit about myself, as this is my first post: After what I considered successful darkroom work about 2.5 years ago, I left the dark side of the force and turned to digital photography; full-frame sensors made it possible. As I also started developing colour at that time and found it nothing but frustrating, digital photography came at just the right moment.
To cut a long story short: I’m back where I enjoyed myself the most and am enjoying myself again. From the mouse-pusher back to the tray-pusher, so to speak :(
Looking forward to any replies and tips
Dieter
StefanCaspari
Hello everyone,
I’m looking for a developer and film combination that produces consistent, coarse-grained results, ideally on roll film. I’d also be happy with products that I can buy from Impex :)
My old formula back then was based on Tmax 3200 and Rodinal, but the old version from Agfa. Unfortunately, I don’t know how things stand with the current Rodinal; I’m completely out of the loop on this subject and am starting from scratch again – that’s generally how I feel about darkroom work at the moment :/
I’d also like to hear from fellow forum members about how ADOX CHS films perform in practice: here too, which developer combination yields good results when it comes to printing. I’m more interested in negatives that print well; scanning isn’t my main priority – if I do scan anything at all, I prefer to scan the printed image. I’ve seen loads of scanned CHS negatives on Flickr, but, as I said, how do they look when printed?
I’d be grateful for any tips :)
A bit about myself, as this is my first post: After what I considered successful darkroom work about 2.5 years ago, I left the dark side of the force and turned to digital photography; full-frame sensors made it possible. As I also started developing colour at that time and found it nothing but frustrating, digital photography came at just the right moment.
To cut a long story short: I’m back where I enjoyed myself the most and am enjoying myself again. From mouse-pushing back to tray-pushing, so to speak :(
Looking forward to any replies and tips
Dieter
Hi Zeze!
First of all: if you’re looking for coarse grain, why do you want to switch to medium format?
You’re interested in the result on the finished enlargement, aren’t you?
With a 35mm negative and the same print size, you’ll get a coarser grain.
I’ve had good results with the old APX 400, but also with HP5 and Rodinal – more heavily diluted, but developed for longer (you’ll have to test this out – it depends on the subject matter and your choice of enlarger condenser/mixing chamber).
Another option would be to use a red or orange filter, if the subject’s colour distribution allows it.
The longer-wavelength red or orange light primarily provides exposure to the colour sensitizers for red (Pan) – these are usually slightly larger.
Warm regards from Munich: Stefan
Tandemfahren
Hello!
I’ve got the gist of what you’re after, and I know you’re using MF film. Tmax 3200 in Rodinal actually makes sense in this context, although you’ll never get around to trying it, of course.
One man’s ‘almost grainless’ is another man’s desert...
I do have one tip, though: Rodinal, or even better, APH09 warm, i.e. warmer than 20°C.
As I’ve had some success going the other way round – at 15°C – that should work a treat, and produce sharpness.
You’re also guaranteed short development times – at 15°C, you’ll need a fair bit of patience!
As for the CHS, all I can say is that the 25mm works brilliantly in Rodinal 1+100 at 15°C, but it’s exactly what you don’t want. Without a 20x grain sharpener, you’d be stuck.
Good luck
Frank
StefanCaspari
Hi there!
I’ve got the gist of your query, and I know you’re using medium format film. Tmax 3200 in Rodinal actually makes sense in this context, although you’ll never get away from having to experiment, of course.
One man’s ‘almost grainless’ is another man’s desert…
I do have one tip, though: Rodinal, or even better, APH09 warm – that is, warmer than 20°C.
As I’ve had some success going the other way round – namely at 15°C – that should work a treat, and with sharpness.
You’re also guaranteed short development times – at 15°C, you need a fair bit of patience!
As for the CHS, all I can say is that the 25mm works brilliantly in Rodinal 1+100 at 15°C, but it’s exactly what you don’t want. Without a 20x grain sharpener, you’re stuck.
Good luck
Frank
Hi Frank!
You’re basically right about the ‘warm’ APH09 and the grain.
But have you also considered the gradient? The whole thing is supposed to be enlargable in analogue form, after all....
Speaking of the CHS: the CHS 100 has grain qualities in the APH09 that, in addition to the edge effect, ensure good, sharp reproducibility. But on medium format...?
Basically, I’m of the opinion that the higher speed of the Tmax 3200 is partly negated by the generally lower light intensity of medium format lenses (in certain available light situations, you simply get further with 35mm!).
Furthermore, the ‘permissible blurring’ with 35mm lenses is considerably lower than with medium format, which can become relevant with coarse grain and the associated resolution limits.
A flawless, high-contrast enlarger lens, as well as hard condenser light, is definitely a ‘must’ for grain that is intentionally used for creative effect!
Best regards: Stefan
Tandemfahren
Hi again,
You have to control the gradient separately for each developing temperature by adjusting the development time and agitation.
With the combination mentioned, I’d bet my bottom dollar that an enlargable gradient is achievable (not at 45°C, of course!).
Otherwise, Stefan is right, of course, but it just depends on what you like and what you need it for.
In other words, perhaps you couldn’t care less about the available-light qualities of the 3200 film and are choosing the combination for entirely different reasons (for increased speed, I wouldn’t use Rodinal anyway).
You’ll know (or have to figure out) that for yourself.
So, here’s to good light and lots of fun experimenting!
Frank
Zeze
*Lots of tips'
Thank you for your replies so far.
The question about the CHS films actually had nothing to do with grain formation; I’d like to try them out anyway, and I’ll probably start with the developer solution described in the sales text and work my way up slowly. My main question about these films was simply this, based on practical experience: do the exposures really have that nostalgic look, as the sales text claims? I’m actually looking for something like that. Thanks also for the tip about the APH09, and the bit about the filters :)
Regarding the film format: I only have medium format left, as I sold my 35mm gear in the wake of the, ?, digital recession. Please no comments on that, I know, I know :(
So the new Rodinal is actually the old one? That sounds promising; I just need to see if I shouldn’t order some fresh stock straight away – after all, the old stuff is already three years old.
“Why does he want the grain?” Well, certainly not to throw in the towel – on the contrary: it’s all about ‘mystical’ architectural shots in the mist. After development, the prints will be toned and sulphurised to the hilt. I’ve managed something like this very well before (on 35mm, no less) with the combination mentioned above. Since old Rodinal is just like new Rodinal, I’ll simply give it another go.
The whole thing looks like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272550/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272556/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272560/in/photostream/
Let’s see if I can pull it off again.
Best regards and thanks to everyone
Dieter
StefanCaspari
*Lots of tips'
Thank you for your replies so far.
The question about the CHS films actually had nothing to do with grain formation; I’d like to try them out anyway, and I’ll probably start with the developer solution described in the sales text and work my way up slowly. My main question about these films was simply this, based on practical experience: do the exposures really have that nostalgic look, as the sales text claims? I’m actually looking for something like that. Thanks also for the tip about the APH09, and the bit about the filters :)
Regarding the film format: I only have medium format left, as I sold my 35mm gear in the wake of the, ?, digital recession. Please no comments on that, I know, I know :(
So the new Rodinal is actually the old one? That sounds promising; I just need to see if I shouldn’t order some fresh stuff straight away – the old stuff is, after all, already three years old.
“Why does he want the grain?” Well, certainly not to throw in the towel; on the contrary: it’s all about “mystical” architectural shots in the fog. After development, the prints will be toned and sulphurised to the hilt. I’ve managed something like this very well before (on 35mm, no less) using the combination mentioned above. Since old Rodinal is just like new Rodinal, I’ll simply give it another go.
The whole thing looks like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272550/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272556/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foto_zelle/3742272560/in/photostream/
Let’s see if I can pull it off again.
Best regards and thanks to everyone
Dieter
Hello Dieter!
Regarding the ‘nostalgic feel’ of the CHS series, I can only say that the sales pitch is 100% accurate.
I’m currently shooting a series in the Botanical Gardens in Munich on 9x12/ CHS 100, and I’m thrilled with the tonal range.
Unlike ‘modern’ panchromatic emulsions (including the APX100, which I otherwise hold in very high regard!), the CHS offers an enormous wealth of detail in the green range.
This seems to stem from the fundamentally higher silver content, but also from the ortho-panchromatic sensitisation.
The same ‘nostalgic’ look is also present in skin tones (fantastic for nude photography!).
Have fun trying it out – it’s definitely worth it!
Best regards, Stefan
TR
"Why does he want the grain?" Well, certainly not to throw in the towel – quite the opposite: it’s all about ‘mystical’ architectural shots in the mist. After development, the prints are toned and sulphurised to the hilt.
Hi Zeze,
Have you ever thought about developing positives in a lith developer? There are quite a few of those available here too. A while back, I enlarged and developed my 35mm negatives on Fomatone in Easylith: grain and a "mystical" look in a single wash.
Regards, Thomas
Zeze
@Stefan: Thanks for the info; I’ll just order this film when I’m back home – best to try out every CHS. What paper might you recommend for printing? Do you have any personal experience or preferences in that regard?
@Thomas: I’m no stranger to Lith, but unfortunately the results are never quite as predictable for me, even though you can create some lovely things with it. I’ll give it another go at some point.
Thanks to you all :(
Dieter
StefanCaspari
@Stefan: Thanks for the info; I’ll just order this film when I’m back home – best to try out every CHS. What paper might you recommend for printing? Do you perhaps have any personal experience or preferences?
@Thomas: I’m no stranger to Lith, but unfortunately the results are never quite as predictable for me, even though you can create some lovely things with it. I’ll give it another go at some point.
Thanks to you all :(
Dieter
Hello Dieter!
Yes, just give them a go, though you should bear in mind that the CHS100 has the widest tonal range but also the coarsest grain; the CHS50 is a bit ‘narrower’ – with slightly finer grain and a slightly steeper gradient; the CHS25 is practically grainless, but has the narrowest tonal range of the three, and must have precise exposure. It also has the steepest characteristic curve (so generally develop in a strong dilution and for slightly longer – always test first!)
As for paper, for everyday use (i.e. for clients and other routine work) I use Ilford Multigrade IV RC DE LUXE.
This is a relic from the days when there were hardly any usable papers ‘for quick jobs’. I’m on the lookout for something better (perhaps with a bit more silver in the emulsion).
For the upcoming exhibition (my first in about 20 years), I’ll be trialling a glossy baryta paper, dried to a matt finish.
It’ll probably be the new MCC 111 (if it comes in all sizes soon, hopefully!)
I’ve tested a pack and am very impressed!
Basically, you should test the paper yourself to find the one that suits you best. Do you prefer RC paper or baryta? The choice of developer is also very important.
FOTOIMPEX certainly offers the widest range of papers and developers for your experiments.
In any case, have fun and good luck with your testing!
Warm regards from Munich: Stefan
cfb_de
Hi Stefan,
I found ‘my’ baryta paper for exhibitions years ago: Vario Classic FB, aka Efke-Vary-I-won’t-say-what.
Develop it for a bit longer, set the gradient slightly higher than the spec sheet recommends, and I’m quite happy with the results.
Sulphur/iron/selenium toner works well with it; only with uranium toning (which I’ll probably soon be the only one using) does it turn a murky dark brown.
I’ve since developed this paper in Eukobrom, Spur Paper Dur and Moersch 4812. Without any major visible differences.
Best regards,
Franz
Zeze
Stefan,
Thank you very much for the brief review of the CHS. I’m really curious now and definitely want to give them a go. As for the paper, I want to use up my large stock of Forte paper first – I still had some left over from when I took a break three years ago. Foto-Gregor in Kün was selling off his remaining stock at rock-bottom prices back then. Now he’s got almost no analogue consumables left, apart from film – it’s a real shame, but what can you do?
Best regards
Dieter
JensW
Hi Dieter,
If you’re ordering from Impex anyway, there’s a clearance offer for Fortepan 400 roll films on the last page of the catalogue. It’s absolutely brilliant, for example when developed in Rodinal, and could be well suited to your foggy scenes. An orange filter might help to achieve this effect.
The next best film still in production might be TriX 400, in Rodinal or D76. At 25x25cm you can see grain,
but of course it won’t look as brilliant as in your sample images when used with medium format. The film’s gradient can be easily adjusted by pushing or pulling (200–1600 ASA). The Rollei successor to the APX400 and Fuji Neopan 400 are also options, but I haven’t used them yet.
I don’t quite understand the discussion about Tmax3200, as it isn’t available as roll film – or did you want to use it in a 35mm cassette on a medium format camera?
Best regards,
Jens
Tandemfahren
I don’t quite get the fuss about Tmax3200 – it doesn’t come in roll film format, does it? Or were you planning to use it in a 35mm cassette on a medium-format camera?
Ha!
Good point!
I was thinking of the Delta 3200 too – that’s another film with a hopeful message in its name...but at least that one’s available in 120.
I don’t know the Tmax myself, but I once took some absolutely brilliant (and unfortunately rubbish) strip photos on 35mm with the Ilford – what a shame.
By the way, by Adam Bomb. Such a shame.
früstl
Frank
StefanCaspari
Hi Stefan,
I found ‘my’ baryta film for exhibitions years ago: Vario Classic FB, aka Efke-Vary-I-won’t-say-what.
Develop it a bit longer, set the gradient slightly higher than the spec sheet recommends – I’m quite happy with that.
Sulphur/iron/selenium toner works well with it; only with uranium toning (which I’ll probably soon be the only one using) does it turn a murky dark brown.
I’ve since developed this paper in Eukobrom, Spur Paper Dur and Moersch 4812. Without any major visible differences.
Best regards,
Franz
Hello Franz!
I’ve just ordered a pack of Vario Classic Baryt.
From what’s in the catalogue, it seems to me that this is the one that...
Many thanks for your tip!
Best regards: Stefan
StefanCaspari
Hi Stefan,
I found ‘my’ baryta film for exhibitions years ago: Vario Classic FB, aka Efke-Vary-I-won’t-say-what.
Develop it a bit longer, set the gradient slightly higher than the specifications suggest, and I’m quite happy with the results.
Sulphur/iron/selenium toner works well with it; only with uranium toning (which I’ll probably soon be the only one using) does it turn a murky dark brown.
I’ve since developed this paper in Eukobrom, Spur Paper Dur and Moersch 4812. Without any major visible differences.
Best regards,
Franz
Hello Franz!
I’ve now made my first enlargements on the Vario Classic fine print.
I’m quite impressed with the result: rich blacks where I want them, fine gradations in the highlights, and where nothing else helps: just breathe on it and rub it until something happens. It just works with baryta.
I develop it in Neutol NE.
Best regards: Stefan
Zeze
Right,
I’ve got my new memory cards in front of me now (CHS 50) and before I get started, I’d like to ask you experts with practical experience whether I absolutely have to add Hütter to the fixer.
To cut a long story short: I don’t have any Hütter in the house and I wouldn’t know where to get hold of any now (Kön) :( I did read the recommendation on the shop’s website, but I thought... well, it is what it is :))
Best regards
Dieter
cfb_de
Hello Dieter,
I’ve never used a film holder with 50mm Efke film. That said, I do take great care when handling it and don’t own a film stripper.
Best regards,
Franz
Zeze
Hi Dieter,
I’ve never used a film holder with the 50mm Efkes. I do take great care, though, and I don’t own a film scraper.
Best regards,
Franz
Franz, thanks in advance! I must admit, that was the answer I was hoping for ;)
As for developers, I’ve got Rodinal (old) and Spezial, as well as D-76. What would be the best combination? (I suppose I don’t need to mention Diafine)
Dieter
