JensW
Hello fellow analogue photographers,
I’m thinking of buying a 6x9 camera and am looking for people who have experience with the Mamiya Super 23 or the Universal. I’d mainly be using it for landscape, travel and street photography, so I usually can’t carry a large tripod around with me. Among other things, I use an M645 1000s.
I’ve read quite a bit about these cameras online, but I still have the following questions:
1) Are the lenses still competitive, e.g. compared to those in the Sekor C-series? From the photos, it seems to me that they are not, or hardly, coated. How is the backlight sensitivity? Are there any lenses you’d particularly recommend?
2) How big and heavy is the camera really? I don’t mean in cm and kg, but can you still shoot handheld with it, or do I need to practise first?
3) What other 6x9 alternatives are there if I want something sharp, handy and not too expensive? The Fuji GSW690 springs to mind, there’s apparently a Fotoman (though I’ve never seen one on sale), the old folding cameras of course (though they rarely have a wide-angle lens), the expensive Plaubel 690 Proshift, the Fujica GL 690 (which is said to have only moderate sharpness) and the Horseman VH-R (I’m not sure how handy that is either). Does anyone here have any tips or experience to share?
Thanks for your contributions, I’m looking forward to hearing from you –
Best regards,
Jens
Wolfgg
Hi Jens,
You can definitely use the Universal handheld: left hand on the grip with the shutter release, right hand under the camera, fingers on the lens. I’m only familiar with the lenses for the Universal sold from 1980 onwards; they’re top-notch, fully coated and still absolutely competitive today. In backlighting, they’re no worse than those of the M645. It’s hard to single any one out for praise or criticism, as every focal length has its place.
Regards, Wolfgang
cfb_de
Hi Jens,
As a Polaroid 600 user, may I have a say? It’s basically this Mamiya with a fixed focal length.
The camera is a heavy beast, which is why it’s ‘suitable for handheld use’. The 127mm Sekor is very good (the rubber eyecup is fixed and essential), but the viewfinder isn’t great: Little contrast in the rangefinder, no decent overlay of any 6x7 or 6x9 frames.
With the 6x7 roll film magazine fitted, it makes for a lovely and very good portrait camera.
On a low tripod, it’s also great for slowing down traffic <_<
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
Yes, Franz, that’s right, it can cause all sorts of ‘side effects’: every taxi driver sees the thing for the first time, children ask if you work for a newspaper, old ladies who happen to walk through the frame immediately wave you away because they don’t want to be in the paper, and so on.
But you can also work with it discreetly, e.g. walking through the pedestrian zone with the 50mm super-wide-angle lens, camera held in front of your stomach and triggering the shutter directly at the lens – nobody notices.
The viewfinder has its pros and cons; the camera is, after all, a “drilled-out Leica M”. In any case, thanks to the rangefinder’s large measuring base, you can use the lenses at full aperture without any problems (exception: 1:8/250); it works much more accurately (with higher speed) than any focusing screen.
The viewfinder features 6x9 and 6x7 viewfinder screens with automatic parallax compensation for 100mm, 150mm and 250mm, individually selectable via sliders on the body.
Regards, Wolfgang
cfb_de
Hello Wolfgang,
My "Polaroid" doesn’t have those viewfinders. I’ve now got used to using 6x7 magazines, but I’m still on the lookout for a 6x9 magazine (they’ve been too expensive for me so far).
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
Hi Franz,
Does your 600 SE not have the lever at the top left on the back?
http://www.polapremium.com/news?date=2009-05-21
Best regards, Wolfgang
cfb_de
Hi Wolfgang,
I have the 600 without the "SE" and it doesn't have that lever.
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
Hi Franz,
You’ve bought yourself quite a few ‘limitations’ there. As far as I know, the 600 series lenses don’t even fit the Universal.
So: anyone wanting to get into this system should look for a Universal, not a 600 series (with or without SE).
Regards, Wolfgang
cfb_de
Hi Wolfgang,
I was well aware of that. The biggest drawback of the 600 without the "SE" is probably that the lens doesn’t even come off...
I just wanted a rangefinder camera for Polaroid and roll film. And this one’s ideal for that; thanks to Rudi’s generosity, it wasn’t too expensive either. The 127 lens on the front is simply brilliant!
Best regards,
Franz
JensW
Hello,
Thank you very much for your replies.
Does anyone else know the Super 23? It even has an adjustable back; but as it doesn’t have a bellows at the front, you can really only use it for close-up or macro photography, or am I misunderstanding something?
Regards, Jens
Wolfgg
Hi Jens,
At least the 3.5/100 standard lens can be moved back by 10 mm, so you can still focus to infinity even with the extension tube fully extended. By the way, you can download a manual here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya...ss_super_23.htm
Best regards, Wolfgang
Buchtnix
Hello,
Is the Polaroid 600 SE the same as the Mamiya Universal, or can the backs – for Polaroid and roll film – be interchanged?
Thanks,
Best regards,
Steffen
Wolfgg
Hi Steffen,
Have a look here:
http://rfc1437.de/page/polaroid-600-se-komplettiert/
Best regards, Wolfgang
mattes
The Polaroid 600SE is of the same construction but, unfortunately, not identical to the Mamiya Universal. The lens mount and back plate attachment are different. The viewfinder is designed for the slightly larger Polaroid format. The newer ‘black’ lenses are very good; I can’t say whether the older ones are any worse. For me, they do exactly what they’re supposed to: take good pictures. I once mounted a 90mm lens on a Graflex plate and was surprised by the image circle, which is sufficient for 9x12.
The S-shaped M backs are brilliant. They have first-class flatness. On the question of ‘suitability for handheld use’: the body is rectangular with no protrusions or frills; it fits into small camera bags with the magazine and lens. Unfortunately, when assembled, the camera is a real hulk – ‘dinosaur-sized’, according to my wife. It is heavier than a Graflex Spezial. A camera needs a certain amount of weight to be able to shoot freehand; with the Mamiya Universal, this threshold is exceeded for somewhat more delicate people. I myself usually use it with a monopod. In terms of handling, it cannot be compared to a 4.5x6 SLR. To be honest, its suitability for freehand shooting is limited.
The Universal is certainly not the most attractive camera, but it is extremely solid and superbly processed. In addition to the standard 3.5/100mm lens, there is a whole range of interesting lenses for the Universal, including the 100/2.8, the famous and expensive 50/6.3 and the 4.7/127 Sekor; there are extension rings, a Graflock adapter, two focusing screens (one of which has a flat film magazine mount), flat film magazines and much more. The Universal is also often used as a basis for all sorts of custom builds. I once fitted the 3-inch lens head from a Polaroid Cu5 onto an old press body for a friend.
The Universal is a fantastic, worthwhile and underrated camera.
Matt
