Beef
Hi,
I was just wondering which developer you’ve had good results with when using the CHS range (especially the 50).
The CHS 50 is supposed to be a very sharp film (because of its single emulsion layer) and could probably pack quite a punch for a 35mm poster print… unfortunately, there’s no data available on this film. So I’ve been thinking that using a fine-grain developer (such as ATM49) might ruin that sharpness… whilst using a high-contrast developer (such as Rodinal) might result in grain that’s too coarse.
Of course, the question isn’t just about posters... I’d like to explore the CHS range further and am simply looking for the ideal developer for it, one that also allows me to achieve a large enlargement now and then with acceptable sharpness and grain.
Tests in Rodinal didn’t really impress me, not because of the sharpness or the grain... the image itself just looked rather dull :P But this ‘dull’ can be interpreted in different ways.
I’ve now come across these two photos... the one with the woman was apparently developed in Ilford DDX, the one with the snow in D76:
CHS 50 with DDX
CHS 50 with D76
These grey tones just look brilliant! So which developer can you recommend along those lines? With Rodinal, the images looked so gloomy to me...maybe it was my fault... after all, I only ran one CHS through it :)
I simply have no experience with DDX and D76. I’d also need a developer that lasts a long time (i.e. doesn’t run out quickly, like X-TOL, for example) and is affordable.
I’d appreciate any tips ;)
Regards
Andi
mdeutgen
Andi,
give Rodinal or a similar developer another go. I know from personal experience that it takes a few more rolls of film before you get the hang of the CHS. I myself am currently using this type of film (the 50 and the 100) exclusively with Rodinal or R09. I’ve just developed two rolls of R100 (as far as I know, Efke is identical in construction to ADOX CHS) using R09 (I still have plenty of APH09) – flawless results.
As an alternative, I have D76 to hand, a developer in which I’ve managed to develop every film so far. I always prepare a full gallon and then decant it into litre bottles. I generally use the developer at a 1+1 ratio, which gives me 30 films from the gallon using my Jobo 15xx canisters.
Martin
Tandemfahren
Hi there!
I can certainly confirm that it can take a while for CHS to develop fully in Rodinal.
After a few kilometres (it feels like), I’ve now arrived at a tilt-and-swing combination for the 25mm and am getting great shadow detail and grey tones with a pleasant grain structure – at least on roll film. The speed is very moderate – 10 ASA, yikes... but with the RB on a tripod, there’s no need to rush anyway.
Since you’re bound to ask: 15°C, 1+100, 30s gentle tilting, then every odd minute up to the 13th, 3 times (approx. 15s), then static until 30 mins.
That gives 1.3 log D for Zone 8 and 10 ASA. Looks great, but it’s a bit slow; you can’t freeze flowing water.
My 2 cents.
Cheers
Frank
Beef
Hi Martin,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I’ll definitely give Rodinal a go... it produces great results with other films, after all. Do you perform the exposure for the CHS at the specified speed or slightly higher? Apparently, it’s supposed to achieve its 50 or 100 ASA even when used with Rodinal.
I’ve always wanted to try D76 too, but I’ve become a bit wary of powder developers... it’s all XTOL’s fault :P
How long can you keep D76 for? I also bottle my powder developers in dark brown Aponorm glass bottles.
And what exactly is the reason you use CHS in combination with Rodinal and not with D76? :)
Hi Frank ;)
15°C is really quite low :) Is the grain really that much finer at such low temperatures?
Regards
Andi
RolandLindner
Hi Andi,
I’ve had very good results with Ilford’s new Ilfosol 3 on the CHS100. The development time I’ve worked out is 4.5 minutes at a dilution of 1:9 and 20°C. There’s no information about this combination anywhere online, not even on the Impex or Ilford websites.
Best regards,
Roland
mdeutgen
Andi,
Exposure is a tricky question; I tend to suffer from overexposure with the film. That’s because I picked up a second-hand Retinette 1A a good three months ago and use KB 100 or KB 50 (equivalent to Adox CHS 100 and 50 respectively) in it. I don’t use a light meter and just perform exposure ‘on a whim’ based on experience. It works quite well. But what I’ve taken to heart is the fact that the films used to be called KB14, KB17 and KB21 a loooong time ago. So I add a third of a stop to get the ‘old’ speeds. And that’s exactly where Rodinal and CHS work in harmony, in my view.
XTOL versus D76:
You see, and that’s exactly what has put me off XTOL so far. Here in Lehrte, I can mix D76 using tap water; I then fill my gallon bottle into four Aponorm bottles, add Protectan to each, and that’s that. With this method of storage, twelve months should be feasible. Of course, there will now be a barrage of objections from other quarters, but this is consistent with my own subjective experience.
D76 versus Rodinal:
I started out over 25 years ago in the school lab at the local grammar school, and back then the combination was FP4 with Rodinal 1+50. I’ve come to appreciate the developer, and as I rarely make prints larger than 18 x 24, the effects don’t bother me much; my standard size used to be WPK but is now 13 x 18.
Another point in Rodinal’s favour is that it is more concentrated. I only ever prepared D76 (or ID11, back when it was still available in 2.5-litre packs at affordable prices) when I was on holiday and came back with around 40 rolls of black-and-white film. Then it was worth it for me to prepare 2.5 litres or even 1 gallon (US) of stock solution. Otherwise, Rodinal is simply more convenient when you only have one or two films to develop.
Martin
Tandemfahren
Hi Andi,
Well, I can’t actually measure the grain or anything, but it looks nice and fine and, above all, has good sharpness, and in winter it’s also nice and easy to keep it at 15° – I don’t heat the place up too much.
On the subject of ‘information online’ – take a look, I’ve cobbled together a ‘Densi’ from a Gossen Lunasix, which certainly doesn’t provide quantitatively verified values, but they are consistent. However, the values match Otto Beyer’s very closely.
Use it to test your combination and you’ll have certainty instead of guesswork. No more searching online.
You can still take bad photos – I prove it almost every day.
Have a googling “testing black-and-white film”, that’ll help you out.
Cheers
Frank
Beef
Hi,
Yeah, testing film is always a bit of a faff. I’ve read loads of websites about densitometry, but I’ve always reckoned it’s enough just to take the shot and tweak the exposure and development to suit my taste.
But if everyone’s raving about it and I can actually save myself the expense of wasting film, I’ll finally have a go at making one myself soon :) Then I’ll have a new microcontroller project on the go :P
And Martin, that comparison between XTL and D76 is interesting. I’d always thought that D76 went off after about six weeks :)
But when it comes to yield and storage, I think I’ll stick with Rodinal after all... I’ve got thousands of Aponorm bottles lying around here ;) But I’ll definitely give D76 a go in the future... though I’ll try Diafine first :)
Cheers
Andi
mdeutgen
And Martin, that comparison between X-TOL and D76 is interesting. I would always have thought that D76 went off after about 6 weeks :lol:
But as far as yield and storage are concerned, I think I’ll stick with Rodinal after all... I’ve got thousands of Aponorm bottles lying around here :lol: But I’ll definitely give D76 a go in future... though I’ll try Diafine first :lol:
Andi,
that may apply to the D76 stock solution. But as I carry out further dilution, I have no problem with a ‘contaminated’ stock solution. Besides, it saves me having to calculate the dilution factors, which in my view are just rough estimates anyway. With a single-use developer, you’re on the safe side and also get reproducible results.
Basically, D76 isn’t that different from Rodinal. In both cases, you have a concentrate which you then dilute for further use. Rodinal is typically 1+50, whereas D76 is ‘only’ 1+1.
Martin
Tandemfahren
Hi Andi,
Since you asked about the grain, I put a 120 negative (Rodinal 1+100, 15°C) on the stage yesterday and zoomed right in – that is, using the 105mm lens to get an image slightly larger than 40x50cm. Focusing is still tricky because the grain is virtually invisible! A small 13x18 crop enlargement is still razor-sharp, even from a completely ‘inappropriate’ viewing distance. Under a 6x loupe you can see something – what a miracle.
But I only have the 25mm. I’m currently working out how to do 1+50. A bit faster wouldn’t go amiss.
And if the grain were just a tiny bit more visible, might that actually be a good thing?
Wishing you always good light,
Frank
P.S. I’ve just bought a DSLR – feel free to shower me with schadenfreude now!
RolandLindner
P.S. I've just bought a DSLR – feel free to give me a hard time about it!
SPALTER!
**
Slightly off-topic, but on the subject of CHS. I picked up a pack of CHS100 from Siegwart Schmitz at Fotoböse.
Is it normal for the film cassettes to be so poorly crimped?
I don’t even need a bottle opener to crack the cassette open; the lids are all loose.
Roland
HenningH
Is it normal for the film cartridges to be crimped so poorly?
Hi Roland,
What was that about bugs and features..? :lol:
They’re reusable cartridges, so to speak, which can simply be refilled.
Perhaps not exactly suitable as a murder weapon, but they do save you from having to use a bottle opener...
Swinging regards
Henning
RolandLindner
Is it normal for the film cartridges to be crimped so poorly?
Hi Roland,
What was that about bugs and features..? :lol:
With what?
cfb_de
Is it normal for the film cartridges to be crimped so poorly?
Hi Roland,
What was that about bugs and features..? :lol:
With what??
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature. A phrase often used by programmers, standard for certain PC products...
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
There are those who think practically: they buy three cassettes and a 100-exposure cassette to go with them, which they then transfer to the cassettes and use to take photos at half the price; they see the fact that the cassettes are easy to find as a bonus. Those who don’t plan to do this and only use the cassettes once see it as a bug (=flaw).
Best regards, Wolfgang
