Developing with coffee :-D

Beef · 2009-01-05T19:56:57+00:00

Hi, da ich im Moment keinen Papierentwickler mehr habe und meine momentane Bestellung hier anscheinend 5 Jahre dauert, bis sie hier ist, hab ich mir jetzt m...

Beef

Hi, As I’ve run out of paper developer at the moment and my current order seems to be taking five years to arrive, I’ve decided to try developing with coffee in the meantime :rolleyes: :lol: <_< So I went out and bought the ingredients: washing soda powder and vitamin C powder (ascorbic acid) ...(I got these from Müller, for example) Granarom instant coffee ...(from LIDL) First I dissolved the coffee in 500ml of warm water, then added the vitamin C, followed by the washing soda, and then another 500ml of cold water. My mixture was as follows: 1L water 30 teaspoons (slightly heaped) of coffee 20g vitamin C 36 teaspoons (not heaped) of washing soda I made this mixture extra strong, as you usually use a stronger developer for photographic paper :( Here’s a scan of my test on Ilford Ilfospeed RC Deluxe “Matt” (Grade 3) at 2 minutes (normally it’s always 1 min, so the mixture was probably still too weak :lol: )... [ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND] That was in B&W mode... and here it is again as a colour scan... [ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND] As you can see, it’s a warm-toned developer :lol: :lol: :lol: Three more comments... 1. The fact that, for example, the left-hand side of the image appears so light (the tree isn’t quite black and so on) is somehow down to the scan. So the print is actually developed really evenly and nicely... it’s just a stupid old scanner. 2. The reason the contrast is so strong here is that I used a pushed film :o I only realised that afterwards. It’s a Fomapan 400, shot at ASA800 and developed in Rodinal 1+50 for 15 minutes (20°C). 3. Bottom right of the picture... that’s not a development fault, but a bit of the wall by my window :( Maybe this topic is of interest to a few people... or perhaps some of you know a few more tips on the subject of coffee. Oh, and the official Caffenol recipes are here: Caffenol recipes And here’s another interesting article on Caffenol: Caffenol on Wikipedia Normally, the developer is intended for FILM...and as I’ve seen from some scans online, the version with vitamin C (i.e. Caffenol C) produces very good results. Best regards Andi

Andreas_23

Hi Andi, That’s absolutely brilliant. I’ll give it a go, but for now just as a paper developer (if something goes wrong with the film, it’s simply lost forever). I’ve already bought some washing soda during my lunch break. I noticed in your recipe that you used more soda than coffee. The recipes on digitaltruth have it the other way round. Is there a particular reason for that? Does anyone else know of any other ‘coffee recipes’? Hi Franz (cfb_de), can you comment on this from a chemical point of view? Best regards, Andreas

Wolfgg

Hi Andreas, Chemists tend to find this sort of nonsense rather annoying; the whole topic makes about as much sense as asking whether a tin can runs better if its tyres are filled with nitrogen, helium, argon or whatever. There really are plenty of better developers out there. If you’re interested, a search engine will turn up plenty to read under ‘Coffenol’. Regards, Wolfgang

Beef

Hi Andreas, Yeah, I was completely baffled myself :rolleyes: It actually doesn’t look half bad... I’ve got a few old baryta prints from around 1920... when you develop them with coffee, the colour tone looks just like those 90-year-old prints :lol: But they’re very sharp. Yes, the soda is a bit of a thing... let me explain... The original recipe says: 230ml water 2.5 teaspoons (not heaped) of soda 1g vitamin C 4 teaspoons of coffee (slightly heaped) Now, paper developers are getting stronger and stronger, and I was thinking of Rodinal 1+50...as a paper developer, you use Rodinal 1+10. So I’ve adjusted the ingredients roughly to this concentration: 230ml water 3.5g vitamin C 9 tsp bicarbonate of soda Then scaled up to about 1L (as I always bottle it in 1L Aponorm bottles): 1L water 50 tsp coffee 14g vitamin C 36 tsp bicarbonate of soda So , to recap: I did all this roughly... I didn’t actually calculate the ingredients down to the decimal point with a calculator ;) Now here’s the thing... When I was mixing the coffee, I thought to myself at 25 tsp... “blimey, that’s quite a lot of coffee going in, and it’s extremely dark too”...so I spontaneously left it at 30 tsp ;) Then I added exactly 14g of vitamin C... that dissolved perfectly. NOW BE VERY CAREFUL: Next came the first tsp of bicarbonate of soda... and then the bomb went off <_< The whole concoction fizzed up and shot into the air...I reacted quickly and rushed it from the kitchen table to the sink... but it was still a HUGE mess on the floor :lol: So it didn’t splash, it just overflowed really quickly... don’t worry, if you do it in the sink from the start, there won’t be a mess :( So, as I’ve now lost about 100–200ml out of 500ml (I didn’t really pay attention to how much), I thought I’d better add a bit more vitamin C back in. So I’ve added another 6g. What’s just struck me, though: I haven’t topped up the coffee :lol: Oh, and the more teaspoons of bicarbonate of soda you add, the less it foams... once you’ve got up to about 7 teaspoons, you can really pour it in :lol: As you can see, I didn’t actually stick to the original recipe at all :lol: But the result is really great, no fogging, no annoying side effects, nothing... it develops just like a proper paper developer, just really old-fashioned and warm :o And the black isn’t DEEP black for me, but more like it’s 100 years old and slightly faded by the sun :( Maybe I should just have left it in there longer. Here’s also a page from a bloke who gave it a go: Caffenol Test . I reckon he stuck pretty closely to the original mix. The fog in his pictures is probably down to his long-expired paper... my pictures are spot on. The picture with the broken pane right at the bottom of this page shows what lovely prints can be made with Caffenol. Yeah, I don’t think Franz will be too keen on this topic :( But what also interests me is this: in my opinion, the coffee developer has an unlimited shelf life... it doesn’t really react with oxygen... does it? Regards Andi

Beef

Hi Wolfgang, Well, why not... It’s just a bit of fun on the side, isn’t it? :rolleyes:

The topic makes about as much sense as asking whether a tin can runs better if the tyres are filled with nitrogen, helium, argon or whatever

But I actually almost believe that nitrogen, helium and argon produce different spring effects due to the difference in density :lol: Cheers Andi

Wolfgg

You know, Andi, people who are seriously interested in chemistry are put off by the fact that some people think a ‘teaspoon’ is an accurate enough measure. Vitamin C is sensitive to oxygen, like all reducing agents. Regards, Wolfgang

Beef

Yes, the teaspoon measurements are a bit vague, I’ll give you that. But all Caffenol recipes are given in teaspoons (even the OFFICIAL ones) :lol: I didn’t make that up. And my measurements are even more than a bit vague :rolleyes: But I reckon anyone seriously interested in chemistry would rather go to the chemist’s than the supermarket to buy ingredients for a developer <_< It was all just a bit of a bit of fun on my part; I just wanted to see if it actually worked and what the results would be like… and I was surprised. Once my order arrives, I’ll be back to using ‘proper’ developers :lol: Thanks for the tip about the oxygen. Regards Andi

Andreas_23

Chemists tend to find such gimmicks rather annoying

Hello Wolfgang, Why is that? Surely it is the great privilege of experts to be able to explain the wondrous phenomena of everyday life to us laypeople (does anyone know why cream sets when you give it a good shake?) I find it absolutely astonishing that you can make a developer from bicarbonate of soda and coffee. A chemist can certainly explain this and will surely also know what results to expect if you change the ratio of the components. What also surprises me is the addition of vitamin C (ascorbic acid). Shouldn’t that be neutralised in a flash by the alkaline bicarbonate of soda? It’s a shame I only came across this thread on Monday. I’d turned our laundry room into a darkroom over the weekend and now have to wait until my better half gives it back to me for that purpose; otherwise, I would have had a go at it myself straight away. Best regards, Andreas

Wolfgg

Hello Andreas, If you understand how developers work, there’s nothing mysterious about this. Of course, coffee can contain components that not only tan the intestines of coffee drinkers but also photographic gelatine; it may also contain reducing agents that reduce exposed silver bromide in a slightly alkaline environment. And regarding the question about ascorbic acid: didn’t you read above that there was a violent reaction with gas formation? What happens when ascorbic acid comes into contact with soda (Na₂CO₃), i.e. the salt of a weaker acid? Just a fundamental point on the subject: In the darkroom, I expect reproducible results. This presupposes that one is dealing with substances of stable composition, i.e. either pure substances or defined mixtures. Coffee, however, is a wild, undefined mixture whose composition will vary greatly from batch to batch (or even from ‘teaspoon’ to ‘teaspoon’); consequently, the effect cannot be controlled, and unexpected, troublesome long-term consequences may even arise. To make matters worse, this is also a use for which the product is not intended, meaning that the manufacturer/supplier will never take our interests into account when tweaking the processing and the resulting changes to the composition, and that any experience gained is only of a temporary nature, etc. So it is easy to waste a lot of time and material without learning anything that could be put to use in the future. But still: to each their own. Regards, Wolfgang

cfb_de

Hello Franz (cfb_de), Can you comment on this from a chemical perspective?

Hello Andreas, Without wanting to get sidetracked into discussions about dilutions and reproducible methods (the scales are the least of the problems here; it’s more the composition of that ‘exploding chemist’s shop’ known as ‘coffee’): When made properly alkaline, the development-active substances get a ‘kick up the backside’ for greater activity on the one hand, but on the other hand they also degrade more quickly when exposed to air. Best regards, Franz

Wolfgg

Why not really bump up the pH? So, if you’ve got some trisodium phosphate, throw that in – or just bicarbonate of soda. Oh no, Rohr-Frei would be just the thing – coffee and Rohr-Frei! But make sure you wear gloves and safety goggles. And don’t do it on the kitchen table! Regards, Wolfgang

cfb_de

Why not really bump up the pH? So, if you’ve got some trisodium phosphate, throw that in, or even bicarbonate of soda – oh no, Rohr-Frei would be just the thing: coffee and Rohr-Frei! But do wear gloves and safety goggles. And don’t do it on the kitchen table! Regards, Wolfgang

Well, the gelatin should be able to survive that. Best regards, Franz

Andreas_23

Hi Andi, I tried the coffee and bicarbonate of soda mixture today as well. And the stuff develops like crazy. You can actually use it just like a normal paper developer. I used negatives for which I’d noted down the exposure times for the paper I was using (ADOX Easy Print 311). The times work almost exactly the same for the coffee developer too. My recipe for 1 litre of developer: 60 g washing soda (= 20 teaspoons) 60 g instant coffee (= 32 teaspoons) 1 teaspoon vitamin C First I dissolved the washing soda in half a litre of warm water, then added the coffee and finally the vitamin C. It went without a hitch. Nothing exploded or boiled over. It only fizzed a tiny bit when I added the vitamin C. Then I topped it up with cold water to make 1 litre. Development time: 1.5 minutes. Stop and fix as usual. The enlargements turn out perfectly. The coffee colours the emulsion, so there are no pure white areas; instead, the whole image takes on a slight brown tint. I really like that. I’ve scanned three examples. When scanned in colour, the image tone comes out with a strong red cast (probably down to the scanner). I’ve therefore uploaded black-and-white files.

Wolfgang, it’s all just a bit of fun, isn’t it? I play the trumpet. You can also play on a garden hose or a copper pipe. It’s a bit of a gag, but no substitute for a proper instrument. That’s how I’d view the coffee developer too. My sons (aged 8 and 12) actually think working in the darkroom is ‘cool’. When I told them I wanted to develop photos in coffee today, they thought it was “awesome” and “crazy” and were desperate to help. That alone made the experiment worthwhile. And my wife loved the fact that the laundry room smelled of coffee rather than fixer :). Best regards, Andreas

cfb_de

And my wife loved the fact that the laundry room smelled of coffee rather than fixer.

Andreas is going to be a... Next, I’ll hang the scented wipes from the tumble dryer in the PE dryer and the film drying cabinet, then my wife will be sorted until at least our diamond wedding anniversary :) Best regards, Franz