HGR
Hello,
I’ve made a mistake again: I took up a special offer on some older
photographic paper (NEVER AGAIN!).
After development, the paper develops a severe grey haze where the white
border should be.
Has anyone ever tried the following from our host’s online shop:
Moersch Restrainer Neutral anti-foggant agent …
Or are there any other tips to salvage what can be salvaged?
I certainly don’t want to throw good money after bad …
Best regards,
Hans-Gerd
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Hans-Gerd,
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How grey does it turn out, and how long did you develop it for?
The Restrainer works in a similar way to simply increasing the exposure and developing the film for a shorter time.
For many subjects, a very slight fog is actually beneficial, though you would then have to do without the ‘white’ border.
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But it can’t work miracles either. If the paper is already noticeably grey after 30 seconds in (fresh) developer, it’s not much use.
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Best regards,
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Mirko
grommi
"The paper develops a severe grey haze after processing..."
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You can use workarounds like Restrainer from Moersch, or potassium bromide or benzotriazole, or clarify the highlights with Farmer’s reducer or diluted C-41 bleach, but in my opinion these are all stopgaps. I’d save myself the trouble.
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With negative film, fog isn’t so critical, but with paper, in my opinion, it’s a deal-breaker. Photographic paper can never be fresh enough, especially since the highly effective stabilizer cadmium (for good reasons) has long been banned from use. That’s why I would never stock up on a large supply; just enough to use up in 1 or at most 2 years.
michael-kielgmxnet
When using old Orwo paper, I’ve always used Moersch Finisher Blue as an additive to reduce the grey haze. It’s actually intended as a cool-tone additive for certain developers, but it also acts as an anti-foggant.
Generally speaking, you shouldn’t expect miracles from these additives, but it’s worth a try, especially as they’re quite inexpensive.
If all else fails, you might still be able to use the paper for lith prints. In lith printing, the base haze is suppressed by the specific dynamics of the developer.
HGR
Thank you very much for the tips and advice; I’ll give everything a go, especially
lith printing, which would be completely new to me – it is a hobby, after all!
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Best regards
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Hans-Gerd
highscore
Hi everyone
Hello!
I think I’ve been in luck this time.
Last Monday, I received 36 packets of ORWO in the post. I’d picked them up for next to nothing on eBay.
And I have to say, nothing has gone grey (so far). I’ve only opened one packet at random, though.
I don’t know yet whether the other 35 packets are any good, though.
After all, the paper is over 35 years old.
It’s mainly BN1 (2200x) and BN111 (900x), though only in 7.4 x 10.5 cm sizes.
The exposure time for the paper is over 30 seconds and it also takes about 3 minutes in the developer.
The exposure time is also quite long – over 60 seconds.
It seems quite a bit of speed has been lost along the way.
But it’s just right for practising and playing around with my little daughter.
If she ends up producing some proper rubbish with the paper, it’ll only have cost a few pence.
Best regards, Highscore
HGR
During my time as a darkroom photographer, I took a break of about 20 years, from the mid-70s to the late 90s. I
started off by using the paper I had to hand and didn’t notice any grey haze; it was just that the paper had become softer.
With that experience in mind, I also bought this older clearance stock. I wonder if it still contained cadmium back then,
as Grommi mentioned above?
Incidentally, I’ve now tried longer exposure times and shorter development times, as recommended by Mirko above, and
have actually achieved less grey tinge. But that means you can’t fully develop the film.
highscore
Perhaps you could get somewhere with potassium bromide?
I’d certainly give it a go straight away, as I’ve got plenty of it at home.
But those who know more about photochemistry will surely be able to say more on the subject.
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Regards
Highscore
Rolf-Werner
I still have some residue of Ilford 2 and 3 from the 80s; they’re still usable, but one packet has been exposed to light – there’s a tiny spot on the edge – and the paper has turned a bit yellow. Otherwise, they still work, even though they were in the loft, where it gets quite hot in summer.
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A pack of Foma that’s been sitting for a year now had a grey streak on the last two sheets. I still need to check whether that was a fogging issue from my darkroom, but the three sheets before that didn’t have it, so where on earth did the fog suddenly come from?
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As an amateur, you’ve got your problems :)
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Best regards,
Rolf
Bonderer
As for old paper, I’ll only buy it if the price is right. I’ve been lucky so far, for the most part. AGFA MCP and Ilford MG IV RC are surprisingly stable, whereas Kodak isn’t so much; and if it does have a slight greyish tinge, I use it for contact prints. I tried Restrainer once, but it didn’t do any good. When I buy old paper, I take it in my stride; I’m happy if it’s good, but I don’t get annoyed if it isn’t – why bother? Almost everyone who sells paper – and film – on various websites claims it’s been stored cool and dark, or even in the freezer; I haven’t believed such claims for a long time now. Recently I got lucky: 400 sheets of AGFA in Maco boxes and 100 sheets of Kodak 24x30 for a good €60, and the paper is good – what more could you want?
If I need some and can’t find any, well, I’ll just buy it new. That’s the safest bet anyway; old paper is more like playing the lottery.
Sometimes you win, but mostly you lose.
HenningH
It really is like playing the lottery. With my last batch, Polymax didn’t work at all (almost entirely anthracite), Polymax II worked perfectly, and MG IV was only so-so (soft and slightly fogged).
Old fixed gradations almost always still work well.
tomsand
The problem is well known and a real headache. So far, I’ve had the best results with:
1. A strong developer (homemade solution with a high alkali content)
2. Possibly adding more KBr and benzotriazole
3. Overexposure and development very shortly afterwards
4. A good fixing and washing process
5. Selenium toners to achieve deeper blacks.
RalfMichael
Hello everyone,
Back in the late 1970s, I came across several hundred sheets of Argenta paper – card-thick, postcard-sized, and of varying grades. One pack of 500 was already slightly greyed at the time (the paper was already quite old back then). I still use this paper from time to time, and the vast majority of the sheets are in perfect condition. It really is like the lottery – pure luck. A very slight grey tint gives the paper a chamois-coloured look (as was available in the past) and is sometimes quite useful with high-contrast negatives.
Best regards, Ralf
