Taking colour pictures RA4. What is the right way?

Sandro · 2016-12-27T20:48:11+00:00

Hallo, ich probiere nun schon seit langer Zeit ein (fast) perfektes Farbbild zu machen. Aber scheitere IMMER an der Filterung. Entwickeln tue ich mit dem RA...

Sandro

Hello, I’ve been trying for a long time now to produce an (almost) perfect colour print. But I ALWAYS struggle with the filtering. I develop using the RA4 kit from ADOX. My paper is from eBay. € My questions:

Correct brightness of the special lamp
Correct M|Y|C filtering
Testing colour correction
Does anyone perhaps have a few filter combinations for me?

Sandro

Wolf_XL

"My paper is from the Bay." … …that’s where the problem starts – coloured paper isn’t nearly as durable as black-and-white paper… Do you have any idea when your paper is from or what the expiry date is? It would also be helpful if the council knew exactly what type of paper it is, and even ‘minor’ details like the temperature you’re working at wouldn’t go amiss… … Colour processing is certainly less of a mystery than some people assume, and not as demanding as it was a few years ago – but there are a few basics you really should have taken on board... … Even nowadays, you won’t get very far with just “take” and “turn the filters up”

Wolfgg

Hi Sandro, Have you worked through this yet? The colour cast table in particular needs to be spot on: http://www.chrzahn.de/Fotoseiten/Tipps/RA4.html Then: on eBay, you mostly find coated photographic paper being sold off cheaply. RA4 paper tends to produce greyish whites and colours that run off-key. So: test the paper first, i.e. expose a B&W negative (or grey scale), turn the Y and M filters up until the image is roughly neutral, and check whether all densities show the same colour cast and whether there is a clear white as with B&W paper. Last but not least: are you using the correct Duka light? Regards, Wolfgang

Rolf-Werner

Neither the paper nor the chemicals should be over-exposed; switch off the ‘special light’ completely, take the drum and heat the chemicals to 31 or 32 degrees, then set the timer for 90 seconds. Eliminate as many variables as possible, so use fresh supplies – 18 x 24 or smaller is fine to start with; you can get 100 sheets for a very small price. € Start with Y50, M50 (C always 0) and feel your way. Too yellow? More Y! Too red? More M! We’re dealing with negatives here. € Do you have a mask frame or a cardboard template where you can perform exposure on streaks? Once you know the exposure (a test strip like with B&W is enough for this), you can use it to expose several filter settings onto a single sheet at the same exposure. € On my enlarger with an Ektar 100 as the negative, Y55 M65 is a good starting point; with a Fuji or Agfa, that still looks a bit too ‘warm’. But it probably also depends on where the film was developed. I recently had an Ektar 100 developed by CEWE, and it came out significantly redder than another one that had been developed in a minilab at a photo shop. So, strictly speaking, you have to measure it out again and again. € Regards Rolf

Rolf-Werner

I’ve got a question about that: ?

First, test the paper: expose a black-and-white negative (or grey scale) onto it, adjust the Y and M filters until the image is roughly neutral, and check whether all the densities show the same colour cast and whether there is a pure white, as with black-and-white paper.

? Do you mean photographing a grey scale with the colour film? Or something else? ? I was just thinking of taking a black-and-white negative and placing a clear, unexposed negative of the film being used on top of it, but black-and-white films usually have a slight colour cast of their own. ? Regards Rolf

Wolfgg

Hi Rolf, ? Place the grey scale on the paper from the bay and adjust the colour head to add just enough Y and M to roughly replicate the negative mask, so that a near-grey gradient appears on the paper. Then you can easily judge whether the paper is still any good – in other words, whether all the steps in the gradient have the same colour cast or whether the colour shifts. That’s all there is to it. If you don’t have a grey scale, simply use a black-and-white negative; the aim is simply to have a wide range of densities visible on the paper. ? Regards, Wolfgang

Rolf-Werner

Oh, right, now I see what you meant. € Thanks a lot for the tip € Rolf

jonny

Don’t waste time (i.e. money) and chemicals on paper of unknown origin or age! ? What kind of Duka lamp do you use? Have you carried out a haze test? It’s better not to use Duka light for the time being; there’s a very high chance of it causing problems if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing and how to test for haze resistance. ? How do you develop the paper (tray/canister/machine)? Do you get a clean white result when you process an unexposed sheet?

Clemens

Too yellow? Add more Y! Too red? Add more M!

€ Sorry, but I have to point this out, because it’s a common mistake that can drive beginners mad: magenta isn’t the same as red!

jonny

€ <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rolf-Werner" data-cid="20230" data-time="1482948788"> <div> Too yellow? Add more Y! Too red? Add more M!

€ Sorry, but I have to interject here, because this is a ‘common’ mistake that can drive beginners mad: magenta is not the same as red! € </DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE> € That’s right. Ideally, you should pin a table showing the colour casts and the corresponding filter adjustments to the wall next to the enlarger. € The basic rule is to increase the filter value of the colour you want to eliminate € Print too yellow: increase Y Print too red: increase M+Y Print too magenta: increase M Print too green: reduce "M" Print too blue: reduce "Y" Print too cyan: reduce "M+Y" € Y = yellow, M = magenta, C = cyan € First of all, the exposure must be correct. You cannot judge the colours properly on a print that is too dark or too light. If you change the filtering, the exposure must be adjusted accordingly. Enlarger manufacturers provide tables or formulas for this (or at least they should), showing the magnification factor when, for example, you go from 50 M to 60 M. After a while, you’ll do this intuitively. An additional neutral density wheel on the enlarger is ideal for fine-tuning the exposure. € But before worrying about all these things, the process must be right: fresh materials, fresh chemicals, no hazy Duka light and reasonably consistent processing conditions...

Rolf-Werner

Yes, that’s right, I wrote that too quickly, and I meant to correct it, but I somehow forgot. Red isn’t just M, but M + Y. In the finished image, it’s sometimes a bit difficult to tell which of the two it actually is. From experience, I’d always go for a mixed tone – changing M and Y at the same time – but you’ll get the result more reliably if you just change one filter and have a look at it first. € Does anyone here have an analyser? Back in the eighties, it was touted as the universal solution: ‘without an analyser, you can forget about colour’. Is that true? I’ve never had one and have still managed to be happy with colour... € Best regards, Rolf

Clemens

Well, I trained as a photo lab technician in the early 90s. There wasn’t an analyser either at the workplace or at vocational college. With a bit of practice, you can figure it out very quickly using test strips. But as has already been said here: the process must, of course, be stable and the paper must be in good condition; at least to begin with. Later, once you’ve had some practice, you can try using over-exposed paper (which usually has a yellowish fog). With some subjects, it isn’t noticeable or even works quite well (a ‘sunny’ colour tone…).

Wolf_XL

Does anyone here have an analyser? Back in the eighties, it was touted as the ultimate solution: "without an analyser, you can forget about colour". Is that really the case? I’ve never had one and I’ve still managed to get on just fine with colour... € Best regards, Rolf

€ .....yes, I... Analysers can certainly make filtering easier – but only if you create the right conditions for it. In plain language, this means that you either calibrate the analyser against a grey card – which then has to be photographed every time the lighting changes – or you use the Wallner colour measurement method, where you take a shot through a diffuser dome towards the light source, against which the analyser is calibrated. I bought the analyser back in the eighties because I was developing C-41 film myself using Dilucolor, but never achieved 100% consistent results with it. As a result, every film had its own specific filter parameters – even if they were the same make and had the same speed... However, if you stick to one or two films and have them developed in a large-scale lab using a standardised process, you’ll manage just fine even without an analyser...

Sandro

Hello, First of all, thanks for the tips. I haven’t been online here for a while. I’ll give your tips a go soon. I think I’ll go and buy some fresh paper.