MirkoBoeddecker
It appears that a certain party has been making a concerted effort, through various publications over the last few days, to give the impression that the old Agfa MCC substrate was better than our new, pure white MCC substrate.
It is true that the old substrate is no longer readily available (see my comments on this from a year ago), but that is only part of the story.
With the MCC “new”, we made a conscious decision to use the pure white base, as we believe this enhances the paper. This assumption is consistent with around three-quarters of the feedback we have gathered from various customer surveys. The responses from the test campaign also clearly reflect this trend.
The paper now has significantly brighter image tones and exhibits a tone comparable to the PE variant, which allows for working on both baryta and PE at the same time.
The overall brilliance of the MCC has been noticeably enhanced. The new paper stands out alongside the original.
The remaining stock of Agfa base paper currently available, which is coated at Foma, was acquired by Foma at the time for economic reasons and not because of its ‘globally unique, fairy-tale quality’ (it was bankruptcy stock).
This is why the Foma paper can currently be offered at such a low price, which has contributed, among other things, to the great success of the truly excellent Fomabrom Variant.
A smart move by Foma. I would have done the same if there had been an MCC project back then.
However, as around a quarter of our MCC prospects have now expressed a preference for the cream-white base paper, we plan
to produce a second MCC variant for these customers, which
will have an
identical colouring in the highlights
to the Agfa original. It is no longer necessary to source a special base from Schüler for this. Over the past few weeks, we have developed a process to carry out this colouring ourselves. The technique was known but was not used by Agfa for economic reasons.
Although this is slightly more expensive to produce, it saves us the capital commitment costs associated with a very large minimum order quantity from Schüler.
Incidentally, I would like to note that we do not plan to have the MCC subjected to a coating in the Czech Republic or Croatia.
Best regards,
Mirko
PhilippeGrunchec
Tested it today with Philippe Salan: he thought the new filter was too white, but I didn’t!... though I’d prefer a warmer colour tone (I’m an ‘old’ PW14-15-17 user).
macolline
Mirko, I think you can still achieve some variation by using different developers. The number of test sheets I had available wasn’t enough for thorough testing. I will certainly make up for that, though, once ADOX MCC is available in the ‘pure white’ version. You can send me 100 sheets of 24/30 without asking, with an invoice if possible, otherwise as usual.
Kind regards from Switzerland
Hanspeter
Rotti
It’s great to hear there’s going to be a second baryta version of the MCC.
That said, I’d much rather have it be lith than worry about the colour of the paper.
Best regards
Markus
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Markus,
If we were to alter the paper’s lith properties, we would unfortunately have to change the paper’s entire character as well.
There are currently a great many excellent lith papers on the market. These include, for example, ADOX Nuance, our remaining stocks of Polywarmton, Fomatone, Ilford Warmton, Kentmere Warmton, etc. Unfortunately, sales of all these materials are extremely sluggish, to put it mildly.
I think we’ll leave the MCC as it is on the emulsion side for now, namely exactly as the Agfa MCC was, plus the new improvements we’ve made (in terms of shelf life).
Should a noticeable trend towards lith papers develop on the demand side, it would be no problem to produce a proper lith paper as a second product. However, for capacity reasons, this could probably not be tackled before 2009.
In this context, it would be interesting to find out as precisely as possible what you want to achieve and what you cannot achieve with any of the papers mentioned above.
Ideally with sample images.
Best regards,
Mirko
zensusa
Hello Mirko,
As I mentioned in my report on the submitted mccproject images and in our email exchange, I naturally think it’s great that the MCC is now set to be released in an *Agfa paper tone variant* (second version), as you’ve announced here. On the other hand, I wonder why you wouldn’t then – assuming technical feasibility, which I cannot assess at the moment – also take the second step mentioned and produce the surface of this second version in a *velvety, semi-matt* finish? Naturally, only if the character of the Agfa MCC emulsion were to remain as it is!
Here, I believe, are some reasonable arguments for my suggestion.
1. All photographers who prefer the increased brilliance of the *white*, new ADOX MCC will certainly also prefer a cooler tone, as the ADOX MCC is/appears cooler, as I have tested myself and as is evident from the pairs of images I have submitted. So the new Adox MCC is now ideal for photographers who liked the Agfa MCC but would have preferred a cooler, whiter paper tone. Apparently, this accounts for 75 per cent of all testers. A further shift towards cooler tones can be achieved with a suitable developer, as the Agfa MCC emulsion is very easy to influence from warm black to cool black with appropriate developers.
2. All photographers who liked the original Agfa MCC – i.e. with a broken white – presumably prefer a less *vibrant*, cool brilliance and likely developed their Agfa towards warm black, and would certainly have liked a semi-matt, *velvety surface* on the original even back in the Agfa days. Many of these photographers have therefore certainly, like me, also used Forte/ADOX Polywarmton in chamois-matt or Orientals VC Warmton with a *semi-matt* surface that has a beautifully velvety feel.
Regardless of how one describes the surface, anyone familiar with these two papers will know what I mean.
3. So if you are going to release two versions with identical (Agfa MCC) emulsion, but in the second *only* the Agfa paper tone is coloured – which is already a complex and costly process – why not also provide a corresponding surface (if technically and financially feasible)? Because then all variants, from cool, brilliant and glossy to warm, velvety and matt, could work with the same emulsion. And as you’ve already said, the new, white ADOX MCC would suit the PE better, so the second version could easily differ more from the PE. There are certainly other arguments, but I believe I’ve covered the most important points here.
By the way, just so nobody misunderstands me, this isn’t about creating a new emulsion, but about a paper tone and surface property based on the *Agfa emulsion*! Anything else would be a completely different story.
Best regards
Lothar
Rotti
Hi Mirko,
Thanks for your reply.
I’ve tried some of the papers you mentioned for lith printing and am generally happy with them (though losing the Polywarm tone is what hurts the most :-(
The Kentona also lith prints well; the Ilford MGW, however, does not.
The advantage of a lith-compatible MCC would be that you could cover (almost) everything with a single paper. It’s also very good for toning.
Strangely enough, the old MCC I had (shortly before Agfa went bust) was definitely lith-compatible. It must have something to do with the support, if the emulsion is identical.
Regards
Markus
MirkoBoeddecker
Thank you very much for your enthusiastic and insightful contributions.
Of course, the ideal solution would be to produce the paper in such a way that it meets all requirements. This would enable us to achieve the widest possible market coverage and, consequently, maximise turnover and profit.
Unfortunately, however, some characteristics are mutually exclusive.
Surface finish and colour:
From a technical point of view, the surface finish is certainly not an issue and is definitely in the planning stage. Whether it will be exactly the same as the old Agfa matt finish remains to be seen.
With all these issues, we would always carefully weigh up the benefits against the costs. That is why it was clear that the first square metres of paper would be produced on pure white school cardboard. This has worked well up to the second trial stage, and we are now awaiting the first production run.
Following the first successful MCC cast, pure white, glossy, and the evaluation of the subsequent sales success, the next steps will likely be pure white, matt, and then ‘Agfa cream’ in both glossy and matt finishes.
Based on our current understanding, this appears to be technically feasible and financially viable.
Lith suitability:
As for the varying lith suitability of the latest Agfa production runs, I fear these are mutually exclusive characteristics. Without having tested this in detail through a series of trials, I suspect a link between the stabilizers and lith suitability.
The stability issues of earlier MCC variants are well known; avoiding these was a top priority, and that is why these were the key changes in the last batches right up to our latest batch. In our latest batch, the latest findings from colour film technology have been applied to the MCC. This is easily achievable, as it is predominantly a silver chloride emulsion (just like colour film emulsions).
The paper is now the most stable MCC ever produced. This is a great success. I fear that to make it lith, we would have to reverse this.
If anything, I could only envisage this as a special run of ‘Lithemulsion’.
Separating the emulsions would be technically feasible, as the stabilizers are only added later in the production process.
Best regards,
Mirko
EugenMezei
Incidentally, I would like to point out that we do not plan to have the MCC subjected to a coating in the Czech Republic or Croatia.
In Romania instead?
Eugen
MirkoBoeddecker
As far as I know, the former Konika factory in Tirgu Mures (Azomures) now only produces agricultural chemicals.
Fohar in Bulgaria has also been wound up, and Slavich isn’t managing to run four shifts.
For the MCC, the emulsions are manufactured in Leverkusen and the casting takes place in old Europe.
Just for those who consider this distinction important.
Best regards,
Mirko
EugenMezei
Mirko,
My comment about Romania was just a bit of a throwaway remark; I suppose I was trying to be funny, but to be honest I didn’t really think much of it – it just popped into my head. But see below:
As far as I know, the former Konika factory in Tirgu Mures (Azomures) now only produces agricultural chemicals.
Fohar in Bulgaria has also been wound up, and Slavich doesn’t manage four shifts.
Azomures did indeed cease production of photographic materials a few years ago, at least officially. What’s interesting, though, is that Fomamures is currently based in exactly the same town. One might be tempted to think that Foma has reactivated the old production lines. If I remember correctly, their website also mentions that there is a connection.
So the full range (paper, film, X-ray material) is being produced again in Neumarkt.
By the way, was Konica involved in this in the past? As far as I know, the licence for colour film (and possibly black-and-white film too) was purchased from an unspecified Japanese manufacturer and then produced in-house.
Eugen
MirkoBoeddecker
Eugen,
I can’t imagine that Foma is doing any coating in Romania.
As far as coating is concerned, they have sufficient capacity in Hradec.
It’s quite possible that they have something (X-ray films) assembled there. That might be worthwhile, given the wage gap.
Azo had bought a complete Konica film factory plus a licence for the technology.
Unfortunately, however, they were also dependent on raw material testing in Japan. In the mid-80s, when they still had original raw materials from the first delivery, quite a few batches of truly ‘legendary’ quality found their way onto the local markets.
Unfortunately, this was quickly put into perspective when they started using their own raw materials, and without a strong guiding hand, things became rather shaky once they were left to stand on their own two feet after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The Konika assembly machines were launched as early as 2001.
Foma was also part of the ‘Beetles’ back then.
That’s all I can report, and the information is second-hand.
Regards,
Mirko
WolfgangMoersch
Hello Markus,
If we were to make any changes to the paper’s lith suitability, unfortunately that would be impossible without also altering the paper’s overall characteristics.
Should a noticeable trend towards lith papers develop on the demand side, it would be no problem to produce a proper lith paper as a second product.
Mirko
Changing the paper’s characteristics would be utter nonsense given the quality we’ve now achieved.
One shouldn’t count one’s chickens before they’re hatched – or why should I care about my ramblings from yesterday? If the chemistry is right, the current batch can be softened for lith printing. The developer just needs to be adjusted slightly; a few drops of ‘E’ will do the trick. As soon as the paper is available, the SE5 will contain additive E as standard.
Regards
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Gast
As a Kodak Polymax user, I’m looking forward to the new mcc.
If I could make a wish, I’d like to see something like Ilford MG Cooltone available as baryta paper.
But I’d be happy just to be able to get hold of any baryta paper at all in 10 years’ time!
Best regards,
Wolfgang
skahde
The analogue world after the apocalypse. Following an unspecified catastrophe, the world’s reserves of baryta paper have run low. Chaos and lawlessness reign everywhere; Agfa-MCC is more valuable than gold. Digital gangs rule the streets. Murders and muggings in broad daylight are the order of the day in the devastated cities. The staunch defenders of analogue photography, no less brutal, are waging an almost hopeless war against marauders and biker gangs. (Loosely based on Mad Max).
When on earth is the saviour coming? My Agfa-MCC supplies are already running dangerously low; I’ve completely run out of Forte. I really wanted to avoid the intermediate step of using Fomabrom, Varycon or whatever...
Best regards
Stefan :D
