MirkoBoeddecker
As for the "development of a new photographic paper with properties similar to or identical to those of a photographic paper previously marketed by Agfa as MCC" (phew...), things are looking very promising.
We’ve been quite lucky recently. In other words, all our emulsion experiments so far have been successful.
To some extent, however, we’ve had more “luck than know-how” – particularly in areas where information is lacking. So let’s keep our fingers crossed that things continue at this level.
We can now cast the first 20x20 cm samples (using a multi-layer process, though still unevenly) to carry out initial comprehensive sensitometric tests and also initial image evaluation tests.
If everything continues to go this well, a small initial test pour of a few metres could possibly go through the large knife in May.
However, this will have to be done on a substrate other than the original Agfa substrate, as the lead time for manufacturing baryta paper substrate is at least 6 months and up to 18 months (the baryta substrate must first ‘mature’).
It would therefore be interesting for us to know at this stage whether the white of the substrate may be purer and brighter than the white used by Agfa. If anyone would like to comment on this, it would help us make a decision.
I cannot confirm the timeline published in another forum stating that the product would be available by the end of March. Either this is a parallel project (unlikely, but you never know) or the author has misinterpreted some information.
However, there are still large stocks of the old Agfa MCC 118 in France. Perhaps that is what he means. As far as I know, he hasn’t bought those at auction yet.
We don’t want to get involved in that. I find it much more exciting to make the paper from scratch :ph34r:
Best regards,
Mirko
zensusa
It would therefore be useful for us to know at this stage whether the white of the base paper can be purer or brighter than the white used by Agfa. If anyone would like to comment on this, it would help us make a decision.
Hello Mirko,
As it is, of course, difficult to assess or describe a ‘paper white’ in ‘theoretical’ terms, I would have the following request (since we’re on the subject of requests :-)
For decades, I have preferred to use Forte Matt and Chamois, as well as Oriental FB WT and Agfa Fine Grained Matt. This means I would prefer a paper that leans towards a “subdued white”, and I hope that a suitable “Agfa MCC variant” will be developed.
Otherwise, all users who prefer chamois/matt papers, and who can no longer access Forte/ADOX, would be left with only the Kentmere Fineprint VC Warmtone Fine Grain, but unfortunately you don’t stock that.
Best regards
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Lothar,
Thanks for letting me know.
I’d suspected as much. Unfortunately, that off-white baryta paper is hard to come by.
It’s also doubtful whether we’ll be able to offer any other finishes besides glossy.
By the way, we’re now stocking Kentmere.
The first deliveries are currently being packed.
Best regards,
Mirko
GeorgK
Hi Mirko,
I’m glad the project is going so well.
The ‘warm’ paper stock was, so to speak, a ‘unique selling point’ of the old MCC. However, I wouldn’t overestimate its importance, because without a direct comparison it’s hardly noticeable anyway. It was just handy because you could always spot the MCCs straight away in a pile of prints. But it’s better to get the project up and running now; you can always bring out a warmer version later.
If the base material ends up being off-the-shelf, though, you’ll need to come up with something for the paper that sets it apart on the market. It’s not going to be a cheap product, after all. Kentmere Fineprint, in particular, is already a very fine (and practical) paper, and probably the most direct competition for your project.
Best regards
Georg
zensusa
Hello Lothar,
...........
By the way, we’re now stocking Kentmere.
The first deliveries are currently being packed.
Best regards,
Mirko
That’s great, Mirko, a good decision!
Will the Kentmere papers also appear in the catalogue with prices, descriptions, etc.?
Size
Lothar
MirkoBoeddecker
Yes, of course.
Kentmere and FOTOIMPEX have been working together since 1998.
However, there have been contractual issues in the past regarding goods in their original packaging.
Kentmere had an exclusive contract with Freestyle and we had an exclusive contract with JandC.
Because of both our contracts, it was impossible to do business.
So we met once a year and decided to tackle the matter again next year.
But everything has now been sorted out and this time we’re getting started.
Best regards,
Mirko
heinrich
Hello Mirko,
Regarding your question
: At this stage, it would be useful for us to know whether the white of the base paper can be purer and brighter than it was with Agfa. If anyone would like to comment on this, it would help us make a decision.
There was something about that subdued white of the old Agfa; if that isn’t feasible, I can also live with a pure white like Ilford’s. The downside with the old Agfa was the colour consistency. The paper white could quickly turn yellowish if you weren’t careful (developer too old).
It’s important to me that the image tone can be controlled from neutral to warm using the appropriate developer, just like with the old Agfa. Although ‘warm’ is relative – the PW14 is definitely warmer than the old Agfa.
Even with a pure white base, I will definitely give your new product a try.
Regarding the surface: glossy baryta is fine by me
Best regards
Heinrich
Petzi
It would therefore be useful for us to know at this stage whether the white of the backing paper can be purer and brighter than the white used by Agfa. If anyone would like to comment on this, it would help us make a decision.
I would prefer paper that is as white as possible.
HerbertHanauer
Hello Mirko,
I’d really prefer a pure white base, as the image layers have a significant impact on the print’s brilliance. That’s precisely where I wasn’t always happy with the MCC. A warm-tone emulsion similar to PW-14 would also be desirable, if possible with the speed of the MCC/MCP. If a cool tone is required, this can easily be controlled via the developer (or developer additive). Unfortunately, the reverse is not possible. I therefore consider warm-tone papers to be the more versatile material.
Thanks for the good news
and
all the best
Herbert
SimonWeber
whether the background can be even purer, even lighter
So my immediate reaction is: Yes, I’d actually prefer that!
Then another thought occurs to me: On the other hand, there are also images where I’d prefer an ‘Ilford Warmtone’ base (i.e. almost yellowish).
But I think pure white is more versatile.
Otherwise, I agree with the previous speakers and would say that I’d prefer a choice of emulsion (warm tone – neutral) rather than a choice of base.
Ideally, of course, a choice of emulsion, base and surface – combinable as you like... but one can still dream :ph34r:
Regards, Simon
cfb_de
Hi Mirko,
I’d like something like PW14. Everything else is already covered quite successfully by other manufacturers. For example, by your Vario Classic, by Kentmere, Ilford and even (still?) Fuji.
Alternatively, I’d love to see the old Orwo papers with cadmium back on the market. But unfortunately, that’s not possible due to environmental concerns regarding cadmium.
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
The MCC-Weiss had a slight reddish tinge, which I didn’t really like. I’d prefer it to be more like PW14. And the emulsion should, of course, be a warm tone.
Regards, Wolfgang
GeorgK
Well, a genuine warm-tone emulsion would, of course, be terribly slow under the enlarger, which isn’t to everyone’s taste – especially when enlarging from 35mm film to large formats. Nor is it likely that, at this stage, they’ll be designing an emulsion that’s completely new (for the site and the team); it’s probably enough of a challenge just to reconstruct the status quo from two or three years ago. Besides, that wasn’t the point of Mirko’s question at all.
Besides: first everyone was moaning that MCC was rubbish, and now apparently no one wants a paper with the old properties back – strange. The situation with Forte is probably still too unclear to tackle a PW-14 clone right now.
In any case, the old MCC was a unique paper; its special characteristics didn’t immediately catch the eye, but they did give the images a character all of their own. If it goes back to the way it used to be, it will certainly be an asset to the market. As I’ve said before, I liked the warm base, but for the time being I can live with a pure white one too.
Regards
Georg
cfb_de
Hi Georg,
I never really warmed to the MCC. On the other hand, I did with the PW14 or the Vario Classic FB (I was partly to blame for the roll stock, after all :-)).
As things stand, there doesn’t seem to be any major supply issue with the modern version of the Varycon (= Vario Classic). The PW14, on the other hand, is dying out.
And since I never liked MCC... it’s only fair that my preferred choice has shifted to PW14.
I stand by my view: it’s no great loss regarding MCC (Kentmere makes something almost identical), PW14 is the real problem.
By the way: anyone who wants to enlarge KB prints on warm-toned paper usually has the time to do so. As an amateur, time doesn’t matter; as a professional, you get paid accordingly for the ‘fine art prints’. If you’re good enough. Even as an amateur, I earn over €40 per print.
Best regards,
Franz
skahde
It would therefore be interesting for us to know at this stage whether the white of the substrate can be purer and brighter than the white used by Agfa.
The backing can certainly be pure white. For me, the colour of the MCC backing was always the only practical drawback of the material, whilst in all other respects it was, in the best sense of the word, unspectacular, reliable and flexible.
Best regards,
Stefan
skahde
I stand by my view: it’s not a shame about the MCC (Kentmere makes an almost identical version), the PW14 is the real problem.
Kentmere Fineprint VC comes across as cool to neutral. It lacks the warm end of the spectrum, which the MCC also masters. So far, I’ve only found the warm-toned paper in a semi-matt finish on a chamois backing; is it also available in a gloss finish on a white or almost white backing?
The MCC is restrained in its characteristics and difficult to compare with PW14. PW14 rarely suits my visual style. It often adds too much of its own character to the image, which doesn’t always work but is sometimes exactly what was missing! The only comparable paper, in my view, is the old Ilford Galerie FB, but that is fixed-grade and the newer batches are no longer identical to what I still have here. Fomatone MG, unfortunately, has an even warmer base.
In that respect, I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the planned MCC revival and would love to see a PW14 for special occasions that’s free from quality fluctuations and on a less temperamental base!
Best regards
Stefan
Rotti
I stand by my view: it’s not a great loss to lose the MCC (Kentmere makes one that’s almost identical), the PW14 is the real problem.
Which Kentmere is supposed to be comparable to the MCC???
Incidentally, it would be great (or rather, essential for me) if the new MCC were lith-compatible. I don’t really mind the substrate colour.
Regards,
Markus
cfb_de
With Eukobrom, pretty much everything from this brand. Which is certainly not something you can say about PW14 or Foma when using the same developer.
The same applies to selenium toner. MCC and Kentmere can be toned quite easily into a greenish-brown, with PW14 this becomes too harsh, and with Foma it’s only possible with great effort (and then looks rather poor on the print).
Best regards,
Franz
skahde
In Eukobrom, pretty much everything from this brand.
Both Kentmere and MCC should produce relatively cool results. With a warm-toned developer, Kentmere comes out neutral at best, whilst MCC reacts warmly (which is how I like it best), albeit not as strongly as PW14. If you only use Eukobrom, you’ll miss out on that, of course. Incidentally, I never really liked MCP in Eukobrom either, which is why Eukobrom was dropped from my repertoire even before my baryta days. Given that you happen to like a distinctly warm-toned paper in a developer that develops even cooler than Dektol, N113 or Neutol NE, this would suggest that a ‘normal’ paper with a different developer would also do the trick (just as a possible alternative in case PW14 leaves us for good; this is, of course, a matter of taste).
Best regards
Stefan
Wolfgg
To sum up (sounds a bit like a school essay, doesn’t it?): the gap in the paper range has now grown so large that, alongside the neutral-toned MCC, there’s room for a warm-toned MCCPW14 as well. So Mirko should pop round to Forte’s as soon as possible for a few beers and, once he’s had a few, ask the right questions with that characteristic undiluted twinkle in his eye.
And while they’re designing a new baryta paper: that impressively deep black of the wet paper should finally be incorporated into the dry paper as well :).
Regards, Wolfgang
