Sparkus
Hello,
I’m in need of some wise advice again. I bought several expired rolls of HP5 as clearance stock (best before Sept. 05). After developing, the films turn out somewhat ‘blind’. There are patchy shadows, particularly in the middle of the film strip. The film remains a strong pink, whilst the patches tend towards yellow. I first used Atomal as a developer, now I’m using Ultrafin Plus. I have no problems with my APX films. I actually thought it was down to the films being past their sell-by date, but three weeks ago I pushed two of the films by two stops and they turned out really well. The base is crystal clear. They did, however, float in Atomal for almost 20 minutes.
I used Agfa Rapid Fixer as the fixer every time.
I now have the feeling that the pink colorant isn’t dissolving completely. As a result, the images have absolutely no contrast. Combined with the spots, it makes things even worse. Yet the subjects actually had stronger contrasts (one subject was shot backlit and looks completely flat).
The development process for the problem shots was:
7.5 mins Ultrafin Plus (20°C, 1 min agitation)
Intermediate rinse
3 mins fixing
20 mins final rinse
Does anyone have any idea how I can still salvage the developed negatives, or what I’m generally doing wrong?
Thanks in advance!
Frank.
piu58
I’d put my money on the film not having been developed properly. Just give it a longer development time.
A storage period of less than two years shouldn’t cause any serious loss of quality. Perhaps two stops less exposure and slightly less contrast, but the film should still be usable. Besides, it’s been sitting in the boot of a car for four years.
huehnerhose
Hi,
I agree about the insufficient fixing – I’d simply take a piece of undeveloped film and, in daylight, place it in the fixing bath and move it around a bit with some tweezers; it should clear up after x minutes – a clear base. Your fixing time should be twice that of x.
The spots... I’ve also noticed spots forming on a few old prints; they start off slightly yellow, then eventually turn brown – I think it’s down to insufficient or poor washing. How do you wash? Have a look for ‘Ilford washing’... I use it for my films and find it extremely affordable – I haven’t had any problems with it so far.
I’d put your lacklustre contrast down to underexposure or underdevelopment. If you’ve still got loads of film, I’d just expose a test series to check the exposure and development process.
But start with the fixing stage first! (Have a look for “fixing time” here in the forum; you’ll surely find more detailed explanations there)
Regards
Sebastian
Sparkus
Hi,
Well, I usually use some overexposure on my films. The lack of contrast could partly be down to the camera (a Welta Reflekta II from the 1950s with a bit of mould in the lens). But with the spots as well, there’s simply nothing more to be made of it. Even at gradient 4, it’s just grey on grey.
By ‘flat’, I don’t mean that the negative is too thin. These spots actually increase its density. In other words: all the light areas in the negative are now just ‘grey’, meaning the finished image no longer has any blacks. The spots are there pretty much from the start... So not after a few days, but they become more visible the drier the film gets.
For the fixing time, I stuck to what it says on the packet: 2–3 mins. But I’ve been thinking about trying Tetenal’s fixer (Superfix Plus). The fixer I’ve been using so far is Agfa Acidofix.
Can I re-fix the films once they’ve been fixed? Or is it a ‘wasted effort’?
I read somewhere that it’s not a good idea to fix films for too long?
As far as I know: Jobo tank (1520), 20 minutes with about 12 water changes. Strangely enough, that’s enough for the APX films too. I’ve never had that problem with them. The first HP5s turned out quite well too. Well, they were a bit flat again, but at least they didn’t have any spots. It can’t be down to the storage of the unexposed films in the freezer, can it?
The strange thing is that (apart from the development time) I process my APX films exactly the same way. And they don’t go haywire =/
It’s all a bit odd.
Frank.
huehnerhose
So the HPs have a really bad base haze?
In principle, you could try re-fixing them first, yes... you could see if that makes the pink haze go away. As for over-fixing... well... if you over-fix, it can damage the emulsion... but if you just do a test print and double the time, nothing will happen... with TMax films, you should (as a rough guide) even triple the time...
As for Superfix – I like that stuff... so it’s my standard fixer...
(On damaging the emulsion: I once soaked a coated glass plate in Superfix, a paper solution, to remove the emulsion... it took about 2 hours before anything started to happen at the edge of a crack in the plate... it wasn’t until the next morning that the emulsion had separated from the plate)
To get to the bottom of this base fog issue... why not just cut off an unexposed scrap of an HP and develop it? If you see the fog there too, then it’s simply due to interference (harmful radiation or something)... and there’s not much you can do about it
The spots are bothering me... are they slightly translucent? Then have a look at them with a magnifying glass and see if they have grain – more of it, or different from the base fog... If so, are they somehow exposure/development... issues? If not, it’s something else... can you somehow reduce it by spot-wetting? Is it always just in the images? Is it always at the same distance...
Although you don’t seem to have any problems with the APs in the camera(?)....
It doesn’t seem to be down to the washing...
Sparkus
Hi,
So, taking a rather heavy-handed approach, I decided to give it a go and re-fix a streak using Superfix. Lo and behold: after 5 minutes, the base was crystal clear. I was treated to some unexpected contrasts *g* What a sight. No more of that murky image, but beautifully defined landscapes!
A thousand thanks for the tip!!! The next films will definitely only be fixed with Superfix. *g*
Best regards,
Frank.
huehnerhose
Glad to hear it, but I’d definitely set a clarification time first – you could even do it in your Agfafix at the same time. That way you’ll have a reliable start time.
Have fun then
Sebastian
cfb_de
Lo and behold: after 5 minutes, the slide was crystal clear. I was treated to some unexpected contrasts *g*
Hi Frank,
Well, there you go. You’ve now learnt *that you should fix properly. Sebastian has described nicely how to do it *properly*.
*Proper* fixing, by the way, is independent of the manufacturer of the liquid concentrate. It works exactly the same with X55, A300, Superfix, ‘Rapid Fixer’ and all that other stuff... You just have to do it and shouldn’t be too stingy with the fixer.
For testing the efficiency of the fixer (the method of determining clarification time fails, at the latest, with iodide-rich flat crystal emulsions), you’ll find the KI test. Stefan Heymann has described it wonderfully clearly on his website:
http://www.stefanheymann.de/foto/fixierbadtest.htm
And before the looming war of beliefs about the disposal of fixers begins: Stefan has also presented this very clearly and well:
http://www.stefanheymann.de/foto/entsorgung.htm
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
Franz: But there’s one interesting method for recycling used fixers that the ever-industrious Stefan Heymann hasn’t mentioned. Namely, electrolysis. It was discussed in *Foto&Labor* 1-2/84. The article talks about a fixer that can be reused as often as required.
Best regards, Wolfgang
piu58
Glad to hear it, but I’d definitely determine the settling time first – you could even do it in parallel in your Agfafix. That way you’ll have a reliable start time.
Have fun then
Sebastian
And don’t forget: the clarification time (and therefore the fixing time) increases as the bath is used up. By the end, it roughly doubles.
cfb_de
Hello Wolfgang,
I don’t think electrolysis is very practical given the small quantities produced in a home laboratory. What’s more, it requires ‘a bit’ more effort in terms of process parameters than the FHL suggests (I’ve read the article too).
Best regards,
Franz
Wolfgg
Hello Franz,
Yes, the F&L article is a bit vague. You can see exactly what needs to be taken into account to continue working with desilvered fixer without any worries in the EK manual, under Module 5 "Chemical Recovery Procedures" from page 5-7:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/...ssing/h24.shtml
The sentence “As the fixer is used, it becomes a very complex mixture” says it all. The limit of what is feasible with skilfully practised desilvering is probably the recommended use of an 80% desilvered fixer supplemented with 20% fresh fixer.
Regards, Wolfgang
cfb_de
Hello Wolfgang,
When it comes to ‘regenerating’ with 20% fresh fixer, it’s really just a matter of adjusting the pH. I’m surprised that Kodak still promotes this today. Anyone who’s really interested knows that a fixer adjusted to a neutral pH does the job just as well.
However, this does not alter the fundamental complexity of the electrolysis process involved in reprocessing the fixer.
Best regards,
Franz
