CommodoreMan
Hello everyone!
My name is Christian and I’m 23 years old.
I’ve been taking analogue photographs for quite some time now. Until now, I’ve always used a commercial lab for cost reasons. However, this summer I inherited quite a substantial set of equipment for making enlargements.
Having achieved my first usable results with this, I’d now like to try my hand at processing negatives.
I don’t have any materials for this yet. But a developing tank and so on isn’t a problem.
My question is really about which developer is best suited to me.
I’m looking for a developer that’s safe to use and where you can’t go far wrong. As an occasional user, the concentrate should have as long a shelf life as possible.
I was thinking of a liquid concentrate from which I can then measure off the required amount for a single use.
I work in the black-and-white sector and have been very happy using Ilford’s HP5+ so far. I don’t mind a certain amount of grain (otherwise I’d hardly use HP5+). It would be nice to have the option of pushing the film to ISO 800 from time to time.
What can you recommend?
For the fixer and stop bath, I can use Adstop and Adofix, which I already have here for printing on paper anyway, though in separate batches for film and paper.
Regards, Christian
Lichtjahr
Hi Christian,
If you’ve already settled on Ilford films, I can recommend Ilford’s ID-11 universal developer.
It’s sold as a powder, but preparing it is really no great feat.
Fill the tank with about three-quarters of the final volume of warm water, then stir in powder A until it’s completely dissolved, followed by powder B, again stirring until it’s fully dissolved.
Then top up to the final volume (1 litre) – that’s all there is to it.
If you pour the developer into a brown, soft plastic bottle, you can squeeze the bottle to displace the air.
That way, you can save yourself the expense of Protectan and use the money to buy more film instead.
For the stop bath, I use citric acid from Dr Oetker, available from the supermarket in 5g packets for baking.
You’ll need 10g for 1 litre of a 2% solution.
Enjoy your new hobby.
Edi
CommodoreMan
Thanks for the reply!
So how long does the mixture keep? I thought I’d read somewhere that once a powder developer has been mixed, its shelf life is rather short?
Or can it be extended by sealing it off from the air using Protectan (I already have some, as I wanted to protect the paper developer concentrate) or, for example, by putting marbles in the bottle? What kind of shelf life can one realistically expect?
In my case, it’s often the case that I might only develop one or two films and then have a few months’ break in between.
Regards, C-Man
Morte
If you want a liquid developer that keeps for a long time, there’s really nothing better than Rodinal or Adonal. It really does last for years in the bottle. Otherwise, I’ve had good results with the powder developer Atomal/A49, which has lasted for several months in the bottle even after it had settled. Both are cheap.
CommodoreMan
Rodinal seems to be the standard developer, from what I’ve read.
Going back to the powder form: do I always have to prepare the full batch of stock solution, from which I then perform dilution on my single batch, or can I prepare smaller quantities, such as 250ml? In that case, the stock solution would be used up more quickly, and a shelf life of a few weeks would be sufficient.
With a whole litre of stock solution, however, I’d be able to get by for a very long time.
What is the general experience with atomal, for example, if you ensure it is kept in a dark, oxygen-free environment? A few months could mean anything from 2 to 12 ;).
I’d say if you can definitely get by with it for over three months, that’s certainly interesting, especially as a new batch wouldn’t be too painful in that price range.
Regards, C-Man
Magirus
Hello
Why not try TETENAL Ultrafin Liquid?
If you want a fine grain, this is a liquid developer with a long shelf life.
I used TETENAL Ultrafin Liquid for a long time, but now
I no longer work with HP5.
And for me, Rodinal is sufficient.
Regards, Bernd
CommodoreMan
The Kodak HC110 is also described as having a very long shelf life and being versatile.
Is there anything against using this?
And another question: Tw advises against using a stop bath and recommends intermediate rinsing. Can anyone tell me what advantages this is supposed to offer, apart from saving on another chemical? Or is a proper stop bath actually the better method?
As a newcomer, the different products and opinions are quite confusing.
Regards, C-Man
Lichtjahr
A stop bath is not strictly necessary.
In most cases, a rinse is sufficient. Fill the tank with water twice, empty it, and fill it again.
However, a residue of the developer remains in the swollen film layer – but this can usually be ignored.
The reason for using a stop bath is as follows: you want to stop the development process abruptly.
The developer is alkaline and the stop bath is acidic; this neutralises the developer in the film layer.
At the same time, this minimises the carry-over of a base into the acidified fixer. The service life of the fixer can be extended.
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Don’t get confused by the different developers.
If I remember correctly, the ILFORD ID-11 and the Kodak HC 110 have the same formula.
Have a look at the ADOX Atomal 49 too, a formula that has proven itself for almost 100 years.
Here in the shop, you can download a data sheet as a PDF for every developer on offer.
These usually include information on yield and shelf life. Incidentally, even a developer concentrate has only a limited shelf life.
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Edi
karlokell
Hi Christian!
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You’ve probably realised by now that your question has stirred up quite a bit of discussion, not least a fair amount of half-baked knowledge. So:
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Apart from a few really expensive exceptions (Pyro, for example), film developers are inexpensive, and price isn’t really a factor in choosing one over another! The only criterion here might be that you can’t buy a small enough pack and don’t want to have to bin most of the unused, spoiled solution. From that perspective, for example, Kodak D-76 is problematic (only available in a 3.6-litre pack, though quite cheap), whereas Ilford ID-11 (identical formula! available in 1-litre packs, but relatively more expensive) makes more sense.
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Powder developers should always be prepared in full, because the mixture of the individual components, which was still homogeneous after production, becomes ‘dehomogenised’ again in the pack (larger/smaller or lighter/heavier crystals behave differently and separate due to any shaking). Partial batches therefore most likely no longer contain the same component ratio as the full pack, even if some users stubbornly refuse to accept this.
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A prepared powder developer is no more perishable than a shop-bought liquid concentrate (at least if you use demineralised water from a DIY store rather than your tap water, which is probably not chemically ideal); on the contrary: the deterioration process only begins once the solution is prepared, not whilst it’s still in the bottle at the retailer’s. By the way: buy an Aponorm glass bottle for it from a chemist’s (don’t worry, it’s surprisingly cheap) – they come in sizes up to 1 litre – as this is the only one that’s oxygen-tight, and with a little (!) Protektan (which, by the way, is nothing more than lighter fluid), you’ll significantly extend the shelf life of the contents. Any developer prepared in this way should last for about a year!
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Rodinal is the oldest developer still on sale today; it has an ‘eternal’ shelf life, but it’s a bit of a special case, so I wouldn’t start with that. HC-110 is sold as a viscous syrup that also lasts almost “forever”, but is awkward to measure out. Both produce a rather coarse grain (though I’m sure someone will soon pop up claiming they’ve managed to achieve a fine grain using some special method). For a start, I’d recommend something straightforward: ID-11 from Ilford, X-Tol from Kodak (only available in 3.6-litre packs), Ultrafin from Tetenal, A-49 from ADOX (incidentally, no longer the original Atomal formula!), SLD from Spur, etc. And don’t reuse developer; instead, perform dilution 1+1 to 1+3 with water and use it only once (this applies to the so-called stock solution of the prepared powder developer; concentrates must be diluted anyway and disposed of after development).
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A stop bath isn’t really necessary with these standard developers, although a mild citric acid solution won’t do any harm. Just use water! And fix with concentrated rapid fixer diluted 1+4. You can use this several times; it doesn’t oxidise either, but dispose of it as soon as the clearing time starts to become significantly longer (you can examine the film in the light after about 1 minute to check the progress of the fixing: by then it should have stopped being milky and opaque). Fixing errors are insidious because they may only become apparent much later.
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Good luck, Karl
HenningH
ID-11 and HC-110 don’t have the same formula. However, I achieve comparable results with both (i.e. ID-11 1+1 and HC-110 D); without any special techniques. In comparison, the negatives developed with Ultrafin Liquid had incredibly high levels of granularity.
One might get the idea that it’s not just down to the developer, but also to the film. But then we’d have no more reasons to discuss it... :)
CommodoreMan
I also sought advice from other sources and ultimately decided on the Kodak HC110.
I’m curious to see if I can achieve the results I’m hoping for with it.
With HP5+, I get an exposure time of 5 minutes at a 1:10 dilution.
What agitation frequency would you recommend for that?
I’ve read something about continuous agitation for the first 30 seconds and then every 60 seconds?
I currently get the feeling that the run-of-the-mill standard methods are rarely described in detail online, but you can read very precisely how to achieve a very specific result with Rodinal at 30°C and continuous agitation – or am I just too daft to search properly?
Regards, Christian
Urnes
Hi Christian,
The Ilford data sheets for the HP5 and HC-110 describe the standard methods; if you stick to them, you shouldn’t have any problems.
Best regards, Sven
CommodoreMan
The data sheets have been printed. I’m waiting for the materials to be delivered.
At the moment, I’m still in the process of performing the exposure on two test films so that I have something to test with, where it doesn’t matter if things go wrong.
There are also a few old colour films lying around here for practising loading.
Another question about the Jobo Drum 1520: Jobo recommends the full capacity even for a single film. Other websites explain that this is to prevent any nasty surprises if the reel slides up in the tank.
Is it practical to fill the tank with the smaller amount for a single roll of film and simply insert the second reel empty, so that the lower one with the film can’t slide up? Or is the risk too high and should I always fill the tank completely?
Regards, Christian
HenningH
With the second reel, you should be on the safe side.
I’d check beforehand, with the can open and some water inside, whether the specified fill level for a roll of film actually covers the lower spiral completely.
jonny
Developer: HC-110 is certainly a good choice for your purposes. There are two things to bear in mind:
- Think about how you’ll measure out the exact amounts of concentrate if you’re not using an intermediate dilution. I believe some people use a syringe for this. It’s important to measure out the quantities very precisely so that you get reproducible results from film to film
- The processing times for HC-110 are quite short for most films. Avoid development times of less than 5 minutes and get into the habit of following an exactly repeatable procedure. The shorter the processing time, the greater the impact of fluctuations in temperature, agitation rhythm, etc., which can lead to undesirable side effects on the development result
Stop bath: Drugstores (e.g. DM) sell 250-gram packets of citric acid powder, which is cheaper than the Dr Oetker sachets. 1/2–1 tablespoon per 500 ml of water produces an odourless stop bath for film. Unfortunately, citric acid solutions are a breeding ground for certain microorganisms, so it’s best to use the stop bath as a single-use solution that you discard after use. Acetic acid-based stop baths can be kept and reused, but the smell isn’t to everyone’s taste and some people are allergic to vinegar.
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Fixer: Get into the habit of not cutting corners when fixing; unfortunately, many beginners do this. Prepare a sufficiently concentrated solution (ideally a rapid fixing bath at a 1:4 ratio), agitate thoroughly, and do not fix for too short a time. Fixer solutions do not keep indefinitely, so it is better to prepare smaller quantities. After six months, I would dispose of the solution properly if the capacity hasn’t been used up by then.
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Can capacity: With 300 ml of developer and a second spiral, you’re on the safe side with the 1520 can.
CommodoreMan
Thanks for the tips. Slowly but surely, the fog of complete cluelessness is starting to lift ;).
I already have disposable syringes with flushing tips for dispensing the developer. I’ve also had experience with dispensing syrupy liquids from other sources.
I’ve already made the mistake of being sloppy with the fixing stage when developing paper. When the first prints suddenly developed brownish spots after half a day (I’d been very careless with the test strips), I was in for a shock. That won’t happen to me with the negatives.
The times specified by Ilford (and also Kodak) are around 5 minutes in a 1:10 dilution. So it requires quite precise work.
What’s been on my mind lately is: how does a large lab like Cewe actually manage black-and-white development? Do they pre-sort the films somehow, or do they just dump everything into a process that, on average, performs equally poorly across all the films?
Regards, Christian
HenningH
[...] or are they all using a process that, on average, performs just as poorly across all the films available?
That’s right.
With ÄD dilution (1+39), you get 25% longer development times with only slightly increased granularity.
CommodoreMan
The wheel I’m trying to get rolling is still putting up a bit of a fight and doesn’t want to roll the way I want it to :(.
The necessary chemicals, along with a few more films and some fresh photographic paper (the materials I’ve been using so far are completely stale and worn out, etc.), have been delivered to me.
I’ve also already tested the film rewinder and am getting on well with it, at least. My plan is to first rewind the start in daylight and trim it, and then completely ‘open’ the canister in the dark so that I don’t have to pull the film through the felt and risk scratching it. Unfortunately, not all my cameras allow for partial rewinding. But at the moment, the most important part of the story is missing: the developing tank. It hasn’t made its way to me in the post yet. I’m curious to see when I’ll finally get it and can get started.
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I’ve still got a bag of Adofix powder lying around here. I haven’t been able to find any instructions on how to prepare it. Do I simply stir the powder into a litre of water at my 20°C processing temperature (it’s a sachet for a 1-litre solution), or is there anything specific I need to bear in mind, such as a higher temperature for dissolving it or something similar?
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Regards, C-Man
karlokell
The wheel I’m trying to get rolling is still putting up a bit of a fight and doesn’t want to roll the way I want it to :(.
The necessary chemicals, along with a few more films and some fresh photographic paper (the materials I’ve been using so far are completely stale and worn out, etc.), have been delivered to me.
I’ve also already tested the film rewinder and am getting on well with it, at least. My plan is to first rewind the start in daylight and trim it, and then ‘crack open’ the canister completely in the dark so that I don’t have to pull the film through the felt and risk scratching it. Unfortunately, not all my cameras allow for partial rewinding. But at the moment, the most important part of the story is missing: the developing tank. It hasn’t made its way to me in the post yet. I’m curious to see when I’ll finally get it and can get started.
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I’ve still got a bag of Adofix powder lying around here. I haven’t been able to find any instructions on how to prepare it. Do I simply stir the powder into a litre of water at my 20°C processing temperature (it’s a sachet for 1 litre of solution), or is there anything specific I need to bear in mind, such as a higher temperature to dissolve it or something similar?
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Regards, C-Man
Cracking open the film cartridge is completely unnecessary; a film that’s been completely unwound is at best a fiddly business when winding it onto the spiral reel, and you might even damage it in the process. It’s much easier, after starting in the light (and this initial stage is the trickiest), to pull out just a small section of film at a time in the dark and wind it onto the reel. The weight of the cassette, including its remaining contents, ensures that the film to be wound hangs down nicely and doesn’t twist into a tangled spiral. The film has already been pulled through the cassette mouth twice in the camera, so a third time doesn’t really matter.
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When dissolving fixing powder, a higher temperature is advisable, as dissolving the crystals requires energy and causes everything to cool down. This is such common photographic knowledge that it is often not even mentioned separately.
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Best regards, Karl
jonny
There’s absolutely no need to unroll the film cartridge completely; if the film is fully unwound when you start winding it onto the spiral reel, it’ll be a right faff to handle and you might even end up damaging it. It’s much easier to start in the light (as that’s the trickiest part) and then, once you’re in the dark, pull out just a small section of film at a time and wind it onto the reel. The weight of the cassette, including its remaining contents, ensures that the film to be wound hangs down nicely and doesn’t bunch up into a tangled spiral. The film has already been pulled through the cassette mouth twice in the camera, so a third time doesn’t really matter.
When dissolving fixing powder, a higher temperature is advisable, as dissolving the crystals requires energy and causes everything to cool down. This is such common photographic knowledge that it is often not even mentioned separately.
Regards, Karl
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I completely agree with Karl on the subject of ‘cracking open cassettes’. Threading is much easier if you feed the film out of the cassette. The frequently cited argument that there is a risk of scratching the film if you pull it through the cassette mouth again is, after having pulled thousands of films through the cassette mouth, something I can only dismiss as a myth. However, this does not mean you should avoid ‘telegraph wires’ by keeping the inside of your cameras clean and never letting film cartridges lie loose in your camera bag, trouser pocket, jacket pocket, etc.
Powdered fixer is a ‘normal fixer’, not a rapid fixer. In this case, what I wrote above applies even more strictly, i.e. make absolutely sure that the film is fixed for long enough, otherwise we’ll have another one of those ‘Why do my negatives look so strange?’ threads here next ;-)
You determine the correct fixing time as follows: Take the cut-off leader of your film and immerse half of it in the fixing bath solution (20 °C), ideally in a clear glass container. A pair of paper tweezers or a clothes peg will make this easier. Leave the film in this way for at least 10 minutes, giving it a good shake every now and then. Eventually, the submerged half of the film should be clear and transparent, with perhaps a slight grey or pink residual tint (depending on the film type). Now start the stopwatch and submerge the entire film strip in the fixer. Stir occasionally and wait until the film appears uniformly clear in the light, so that even on close inspection you can no longer tell the difference between the part that has already been fixed and the part of the film currently being fixed. Note the time. This is your so-called ‘clearing time’. If you double this, you have determined the correct fixing time for your film.
