WernerKoelbl
Hello!
Does anyone know the development time for the new Agfa APX400 in APH 09 = ADOX 09 = Calbe R09? (I hope that’s right!)
Thanks!
Werner
zensusa
Hello Werner,
The following development times produce very well-defined negatives with excellent tonal range for roll film. The same values should also work for 35mm film. As I have standardised my development processes etc. for years, my data applies under the following conditions.
Development at 24°C with agitation and a 2-minute pre-soak. This produces negatives with a gradient of 2–3 on a mixed-light enlarger (i.e. no condenser; a condenser requires shorter times).
If you cannot reach this temperature and are not using rotation, then you should note the following:
Omit the pre-soaking (not necessary with Agfa); you can then use the times listed below, without conversion, to carry out a standard tilt-and-turn development.
If you are working at a lower temperature, it is best to use the Ilford conversion table for conversion!
So here are the new times in R09 for APX 400!
Exposure/speed 320 ISO = 10.15 minutes at 1:40
Speed 250 ISO = 10.15 minutes at 1:60
You can also achieve very nice negatives (tone range/finer grain and good sharpness) with the CG512 developer (this also applies to CUBE SX developer from Maco/LaborPartner). However, CG512 must be used at 24 degrees! Minimum volume 50 ml per film. The usable ISO sensitivity drops to 200!
200 ISO = 12.30 mins at 1:4
Enjoy developing.
Best regards,
Lothar
Gast
Thanks, Lothar!
One more question on this:
What is meant by: [size=6]If you don’t reach the temperature and aren’t using rotation either, then you should bear the following in mind:
Omit the pre-heating (not necessary with Agfa), then you can carry out a normal standard tilt-and-turn development using the times listed, without any conversion[/size]
Does that mean I can use the 10 minutes for tilt-and-turn development at 20° as well?
Using the conversion table, I actually get 15 minutes at 20°.
Have a lovely day!
Werner
Gast
Oops!
The text has got a bit too big!
Werner
zensusa
Good morning Werner,
"Skip the pre-heating (it’s not necessary with Agfa), then you can carry out a standard tilt-and-turn development using the times given, without any conversion........"
This statement means:
1. If you develop without preheating, you can use the 10–15-minute agitation time at 24 degrees for tilt development!
So you don’t need to adjust the time when switching from agitation to tilt development, as agitation development normally takes about 10–15 per cent less time than tilt development. In this case, switching from rotation to tilt, you would actually need to develop for 10–15 per cent longer; however, as you are omitting the preheating—which eliminates the ‘displacement time’ of the water from the emulsion, etc.—the time difference roughly balances itself out. I hope that’s clear.
2. However, if you now reduce the time from 24 degrees to 20 degrees, you must of course take the 10.15 minutes as your starting point and recalculate.
Your time of 15.00 minutes, which according to the table is based on 10.30 minutes, is therefore roughly correct. However, I would reduce the time to 14.30 minutes even for the first test (due to the difference in the Ilford table).
All the best and have fun.
Lothar
Gast
Thanks!
Got it!
Werner
FrankJBeckmann
Hi Lothar,
This statement means:
1. If you develop without preheating, you can use the 10–15-minute rotation time at 24 degrees for tilt development!
So you don’t need to make any time adjustments when switching from rotation to tilt, as rotation development normally takes around 10–15 per cent less time than tilt development. In this case, switching from rotary to tilt development, you would actually need to develop for 10–15 per cent longer; however, as you are omitting the pre-heating—which eliminates the ‘displacement time’ of the water from the emulsion, etc.—the time difference roughly balances itself out. I hope that’s clear.
Have you tested this explicitly? It is a misconception that pre-heating always extends the development time by 10–15 per cent. The exact opposite effect can also occur, whereby the developer penetrates the wet layer more quickly. In that case, preheating actually shortens the development time. What exactly happens probably depends on the combination of film and developer, and possibly on the duration of the preheating.
zensusa
Hi Lothar,
This statement means:
1. If you develop without pre-wetting, you can use the 10–15-minute rotation time at 24 degrees for tilt development!
So you don’t need to make any time adjustments for switching from rotation to tilt, as rotation development normally takes around 10–15 per cent less time than tilt development. In this case, switching from rotary to tilt development, you would actually need to develop for 10–15 per cent longer; however, as you are omitting pre-wetting—which eliminates the ‘displacement time’ of the water from the emulsion, etc.—the time difference roughly balances itself out. I hope that’s clear.
Have you tested this specifically? It is a misconception that pre-wetting always extends the development time by 10–15 per cent. The exact opposite effect can also occur, whereby the developer penetrates the wet layer more quickly. In that case, the development time is shortened by the pre-wetting. Exactly what happens probably depends on the combination of film and developer, and possibly on the duration of the pre-rinse.
Hello Frank,
as already mentioned, I have standardised all my processes, both negative and positive. Therefore, all my specifications are based on practical experience; I have tested everything myself. On the other hand, and this has been mentioned often enough in the forum, there are always variations depending on the user and materials, and you almost always have to make minor adjustments to suit your own working methods.
As for pre-wetting, my “pre-wetting – tilt-rotation” statement is based on practical experience with different materials (film and developer).
Here is another practical example using Ilford film and Promicrol. The following data (carried out by a colleague) was initially available and also produces very good negatives:
Film HP5+, effective speed 320 ASA; Champion Promicrol 1:19 at 24°C; time 7.30 minutes; agitation constantly for the first 30 seconds, then once per minute. Without pre-rinse! Gradient 2 to 3.
However, as I generally perform the development on all my films (I now work exclusively with roll and sheet films) using the Jobo rotary process at 24°C with a 2-minute pre-rinse to ensure the highest possible comparability, I pre-rinsed the HP5+ for 2 minutes and rotated it for the same duration as in the tilt-and-turn process mentioned above.
Result: identical in terms of gradient, detail, etc. (however, in most cases, depending on the developer, rotation is not quite as sharp as agitation).
I have had the same experience with the FP4 and several other films.
So, in my practice, rotating with a 2-minute pre-soak at 24 degrees produces the same result as the aforementioned tilting method without pre-soaking at the same temperature. As the difference between tilting and rotation is around 10–15 per cent, in my practical work this approximate percentage also applies when omitting or adding a 2-minute pre-rinse under the same temperature conditions. All based on practical experience :-)) but there are always exceptions in life.
Have a lovely day and see you soon
Lothar
arothaus
Development at 24°C with rotation and a 2-minute pre-warm.
Hello,
That’s quite a claim! I’d love to see your negatives – and I’m not being ironic.
I always use Rodinal/R09 at just under 19 degrees in the AGFA tilt tank. Both high temperatures and agitation are always discouraged with Rodinal/R09.
Important for the APX400new: the 30 minutes for Rodinal 1+50 are wrong! Just under half the time is enough, and then increase the exposure a bit (200–250 ISO); that should work quite well to start with (for me, at least). I’m not entirely sure at the moment whether the 1:1 ratio for R09 1+40 can be applied. If necessary, use the times from the old APX400 and extend them slightly.
I’m not testing the APX anymore anyway; there are only a few 120s left in the cellar. But it was a great film *sniff*
Regards,
Andreas
zensusa
Hello Andreas,
To be honest, I’m not quite sure I understand your post. The development times I’ve given produce very good, well-defined negatives, as described in detail above for both 320 and 250 ISO, so why the reference to the old APX and the ‘incorrect 30-minute time’ etc.?
Besides, as I’ve mentioned several times elsewhere, rotation works very well with R09 and also with Rodinal. After all, R09 is Rodinal’s grandfather. I’ve been working with rotation for ages, using all sorts of developers and films, and there’s been very little material that’s really only been of limited suitability for rotation.
By the way, why are you *sniff*? The APX 400, at least as roll film, is still available in sufficient quantities in original Agfa packaging from quite a few retailers. Even if the originally packaged Agfa were to run out, there is original Agfa APX material available in 100 and 400 speeds, as 35mm and roll film from Rollei/Maco as Retro 100 and Retro 400. That is original Agfa material and will last for the next 5 to 7 years! And the price is right too!
So, anyone who was really happy with Agfa’s 100 and 400 films and misses them should go for the Retros, because that’s Agfa quality.
Have a lovely evening and best regards
Lothar
arothaus
Lothar,
The mention of the 30 minutes was also more of a general comment. I didn’t want to start a debate for or against agitation either. Personally, I’m undecided, but the debate about Rodinal and agitation is, of course, nothing new.
I don’t know yet whether I’ll use the Retro. But that’ll run out eventually too, so I’m leaning towards switching now; maybe I’ll end up warming to the FP4 after all – I’m already using the HP5. Price-wise, I don’t find the Retro particularly cheap, quite apart from those silly wooden boxes.
At least I’ve still got some APX25 in the chest...
Andreas
Andreas_23
Hello Werner,
I’m developing the APX 400 (new) in Rodinal 1+50 at 20 degrees for 20 minutes in a rotary processor and am very happy with the results.
Best regards,
Andreas
Gast
I develop the APX 400 (Rollei Retro 400) in a 1:50 Rodinal solution at 20 degrees, using the AGFA agitation method for 10 minutes (without pre-heating). This produces lovely negatives that print up well.
Best regards, Martin
boschetti
Hello,
Does an Agfa APX 400 develop in Calbe A 49?
Unfortunately, I can’t find any reliable information on the processing time.
Best regards, Jürgen
