Gast
Hello,
I’ve had a quick look online but couldn’t find anything. Is colour paper still made on linen or baryta paper? I always find that the plastic-coated stuff looks a bit cheap.
Richard
Wolfgg
As far as I can remember, you’re 31 years too late with that idea.
Best regards, Wolfgang
MirkoBoeddecker
Coloured papers and films are multi-layer emulsions that are poured on top of one another.
These are applied horizontally at high speed, very evenly and in a very thin layer.
This would be unthinkable on linen, and on baryta paper it would only be possible in the familiar, out of focus style of the old colour photographs from the 1970s, because the substrate moves.
The only alternative, apart from inkjet technology, might be dye transfer.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hello,
Turaphot used to make colour linen paper, I think around 1970; the last colour baryta paper in Germany was Orwocolor, which was available until perhaps 1991.
I can’t tell you if there’s anything left anywhere now; perhaps something is still being produced somewhere beyond the Urals, but you certainly can’t get hold of it in Germany.
To be honest, I didn’t find the baryta material out of focus; at least Agfa and Kodak, Tura and Schleussner-ADOX, were a bit more questionable.
You always had to be a bit careful that the paper wasn’t stained brown by the developer.
Colour baryta was actually quite nice; the colours came out more pleasingly than on plastic paper, slightly less sharp, but overall more pleasant; the sharpness issue was more down to the films of the time.
As far as I know, Colorbaryt disappeared because the processing was too complicated for the developing labs; where they did remain, the industry was either unable or unwilling to produce PE base material.
I’d love to have a material like that too, but there’s nothing to be done about it, unless we finance the production.
Roland
Wolfgg
And then, following the standard processing procedure in the tray at 20°C, i.e.:
Agfacolor Paper Developer 60: 5 mins
Washing (intensive): 2.5 mins
Agfacolor Stop-Fixing Bath K: 5 mins
Agfacolor bleach-fix bath K: 5 mins
Washing (intensive): 10 mins
Stabiliser bath with formalin: 2.5 mins
-------------------------------------
30 mins per image!
Source:
Agfa-Gevaert
Technical data Agfacolor paper
MCN 111 Type 7
As of April 1971
Available in every conceivable sheet size from 7.4 x 10.5 cm to 50.8 x 61 cm and in rolls of all widths from 7.6 cm to 127 cm. And that as a baryta paper with press-finished gloss and, yes, a ‘tactile feel’.
Regards, Wolfgang
Gast
I’d like to have that sort of material too, but there’s nothing we can do about it unless we fund the production
Why not, actually?
At efke, the minimum order quantity is 1,000 square metres. If we assume production costs of €10 per square metre, that would require €10,000 – which should be feasible to finance if Mirko then adds the paper to the range.
So :D volunteers step forward!
Regards
Otto
Gast
The promotional text for Amiland
A lovely old-fashioned European-style colour photographic paper with an original 1950s-style fibre base.
Enjoy the creamy look of the 1950s – you’ve never seen such a beautiful blue-greenish hue.
Perfect for a retro style!!!
Gast
Hello,
Have a look at this – why do old colour photos always look so painted?
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/cat/347/display/81345
AdoxColor+Exa Adox Baryt?
Harry
SamuliSchielke
Seriously, how much work actually goes into dye transfer printing? I once saw some of Eggleston’s prints in a museum, and they really are in a class of their own. And there is definitely baryta paper available for dye transfer printing
http://www.filmotec.de/Produkte/DTP_300/dtp_300.html
Samuli
Gast
I’d love to have that sort of material too, but there’s nothing we can do about it unless we fund the production
Why not, actually?
At efke, the minimum order quantity is 1,000 square metres; if we assume production costs of 10 euros per square metre, that would require 10,000 euros, which should be feasible to finance if Mirko then adds the paper to the range.
So :D volunteers step forward!
Regards
Otto
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Otto,
Unfortunately, I can’t do that at the moment; I need my money to buy out Svema. However, I might end up producing this sort of coloured paper in Schostka if the machines can be adapted.
How about Rolacolor as a name?
Roland
MirkoBoeddecker
You’ve got some ideas...
A minimum order quantity of 1,000 square metres for a new three-emulsion product!
Even with tried-and-tested single-emulsion products, that’s barely viable – and it results in losses for everyone involved.
----
For DTM, you need DTM film, colours, a printing press or something homemade with rollers, and the DTM paper.
efke can make the films; we stock them as standard in the US. The paper they last produced was less than ideal (and I suspect that’s now down to Filmotec, as no one else was involved in product development in Europe).
In the past, slightly radioactive substances were used to prevent the colours from bleeding.
The efke paper was top-notch back then. Then they were no longer allowed to use it, and the last batches with substitute products failed on the market because the colours bled.
However, it’s quite suitable for experiments and tests.
There is still paper from other companies in the USA from old stock, though.
These are currently being used by the ‘community’.
The colours are freely available. I’ve even heard that it supposedly works with ink from a pen.
Very briefly on the process: three printing films are produced using the three primary colours and then printed on top of each other without a screen.
It doesn’t get any better than that, quality-wise.
Best regards,
Mirko
Wolfgg
I can just picture poor Mirko wandering through Eastern Europe in his lorry, searching for a few boxes of colour baryta paper for the Quäu-geister...
Yet it’s now crystal clear what’s urgently needed: a universal coating machine in doll’s-house format for home use, suitable for film and paper, PE and baryta, black-and-white and colour, negative and reversal material, masked and unmasked, chromogenic and chromolytic, controlled by the ratty old PC that’s already sitting around everywhere with a few mouse clicks, price maximum €500. Franz, the chemists are the first ones we need to ask!
Regards, Wolfgang
Wolfgg
? And Franz, before you get started, I’ve forgotten to mention a proper instant photo process for family visits.
Gast
Why do old colour photographs look like they’ve been painted?
My theory: Because the colours are off, plus the out of focus effect.
cfb_de
Hello Wolfgang,
The machine has almost nothing to do with chemistry. My contribution to that was already made back in 1936 in Wolfen :-)
What’s needed are businesspeople (cost targets!) and skilled mechanical engineers. But they haven’t managed to pull that off in the last 70 years. I wonder what the point of the general public is at all...
The instant film process does exist. Recently, you can get Fuji film for those lovely Polaroid packs at every other petrol station here. Even my EE100 only takes colour photos now :-)
Best regards,
Franz
Gast
Thanks for the info – so there aren't any left, then. I had a feeling that might be the case, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Richard
PS: If you manage to persuade anyone, I'm in.
Gast
Hello!
I’ve come across something interesting that really shows just how different individual films used to be back then.
http://www.eisenbahnfotograf.de/dbdiesel/galerie230/230.htm
You can also see the characteristic flaw of Agfacolor films – that blue-green cast in the shadows.
As far as I know, the film source back then was Ferrania – a material that’s been unfairly maligned (not as brown as Kodak, or as garish as Agfa)?
Werner
Gast
Mirko,
Roughly how much do you reckon it costs to produce a sheet of paper like that?
Efke probably still has the Schleussner recipes, so all they need to do is source the colorants and produce a test batch – it’s obvious that even that would cost a fortune.
It’s not exactly a brand-new product, after all.
Werner
Wolfgg
Franz: But it would be brilliant to have a gadget like that in the lab (we’re all allowed to dream now and then). And Mirko would finally have a range of paper that’s easy to manage; after all, he’d only need to keep a roll of paper felt with a baryta coating in the width of the machine in stock... :D
Regards, Wolfgang
