Gast
Hello,
I know there’s someone from Ukraine writing here, so I’ve got a question: I’m a keen 16mm filmmaker and want to shoot a longer film, but the Kodak film is so expensive that I simply can’t afford it on that scale.
(It’s not that I’m stingy – it’s just not feasible!)
A roll of Ektachrome 100D 122m costs around 200 EUR, excluding development, and I’d need about 5–10 of them. Is there any way to get hold of this, either directly from Svema or by arranging something with a film shop in Ukraine?
If I’m not mistaken, the film has a speed of 32 GOST and is daylight-sensitive.
The film is apparently only a fraction of the cost (35 $ per roll) of what it costs here, so I’d even be willing to make the developer myself if necessary.
Many thanks
Jü
Gast
You mean me?
I’m not sure, I’ll have to find out; it’s not that easy to say.
I think Swema still makes colour print film for cinemas and probably negative film for 35 mm photography.
You want Swema 16 mm colour reversal film because Kodak is too expensive for you – whether they still make it, I’ve no idea.
We used to have a 16 mm camera and projector at school back in the day; I’m not really up to speed on it these days (it’s all theory), and I haven’t filmed myself for ages (I used to use Super 8).
I’m a bit interested, but I can’t imagine how you’d go about getting hold of it; you’d need someone to buy it and send it to you.
I could ring Swema and ask what they think about it.
If I may ask, why don’t you use a good video camera? It’s surely cheaper to hire one than to buy film?
Oleksander
Gast
Unfortunately, I don’t know where or how to get hold of it either, but there’s an alternative from Kahlfilm: they have a 50 ASA daylight 16mm film in the E-6 process, which is cheaper than the Kodak and, of course, develops very well when you do it yourself.
You could have a look at their website: www.kahlfilm.de. It’s also available by the metre in Super 8, Double 8 and Double S8.
Regards,
MArwan
Gast
Jäg, Marwan,
I’ve been on the phone with Swema; they still have some of this film in stock. They produce it from time to time, not very often – just when there’s a demand for it again.
The price directly from Swema is around 30 EUR for 120 m (122 m is the US length; Swema’s is 120 m). The speed is 18 DIN in daylight.
You can only buy it directly in Ukraine (or in the CIS if you’re a registered customer); Swema won’t send 10 rolls to Germany just for that.
In principle, I could get some for you and send it to you, but I have no idea how to handle payment, customs and postage; besides, theoretically, something could get lost in transit.
Do you have any idea how to go about this? I don’t think it’s that straightforward.
Oleksander
Enjoy your hobby
Gast
Hello,
This is bordering on the ridiculous – going to such lengths to source 16mm film from Ukraine, which, as is well known and has been pointed out a thousand times here, is absolutely rubbish.
The result is then a blurry, flickering mess with brilliant light flares, or “the Svemachrome emulsion doesn’t stick to the base”, “after two weeks everything turns red” and so on.
Better to chuck 500 euros in the bin than use a decent digital camcorder; sometimes I really do think this forum is the GDR taken to the extreme.
Sorry, but that just had to be said.
Markus
Gast
Hello,
This is bordering on the ridiculous – going to such lengths to source 16mm film from Ukraine, which, as is well known and has been pointed out a thousand times here, is absolutely rubbish.
The result is then a blurry, flickering mess with terrible overexposure, or “the Svemachrome emulsion doesn’t stick to the base”, “after two weeks everything turns red” and so on.
Better to chuck 500 euros in the bin than use a decent digital camcorder; sometimes I really do think this forum is the GDR taken to the extreme.
Sorry, but it just had to be said.
Markus
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An excellent example of a typical digital know-it-all!
Gast
A typical example of an analogue fanatic :ph34r: :blink: All I can say is, why do you think that stuff is so cheap? – surely because it’s such top-notch quality :D !
ChristianKolinski
Hi,
I’ve got to get stuck into this... €30 for 120m is, in my humble opinion, a bloody good price.
Did you manage to find out from Swema what process it’s developed in?
E6? Or something completely different?
With 16mm narrow-gauge film at 18°DIN, alarm bells are ringing in the back of my mind – if it’s E6 material, that would explain the source of the stuff being sold elsewhere for €50 per 30m...
As for shipping – it can’t be that complicated, judging by the sheer volume of FEDs and Zorkis flooding across the border via eBay.
And another thing:
Recommending a digital camcorder as a replacement for 16mm film is surely a joke. A good blow-up from 16mm can even be shown on a larger wall... the laughable 600-odd lines of a DV camcorder are a joke in comparison. It would have to go head-to-head with an 8mm camera just to avoid losing by a mile.
Gast
Christian,
More and more people are getting interested in this. I think Swema reversal film is really old Agfa-Color; maybe it’s E-6 now – I haven’t asked.
It’s definitely not T-Kristall, or whatever else is out there; if it’s E-6, then it’s Soviet material that’s been modernised using the simplest of methods.
Whether Swema is better than Camcorder, well, I don’t know; it’s certainly not as good as Kodak Ektachrome.
It’s normal for it to fluctuate a bit and for the image to shift colour slightly – haven’t you seen Soviet film before?
I like the colours; very pastel-like and a bit cool.
Swema is just cheap; otherwise, nobody would buy it.
Have a look here, this is a reseller in Russia.
http://www.foto-rdm.ru/production_2_8.html
The 298-metre film, for example, is 26 DIN, black-and-white negative and costs 107 dollars, in case you don’t speak Russian.
Oleksander
Maybe I’ll find out more, we’ll see – it’s just not as easy as in Germany; Swema doesn’t even have a website.
I’m not a filmmaker, but I’m interested in it, just as I am in the German language and photobooks, which is why I’m writing here.
MirkoBoeddecker
Markus,
What camcorder do you use that comes close to the resolution of 18 DIN 16mm film?
What is the diameter of the sensor?
Have you ever in your life held a 16mm Arri in your hands and worked with it?
Admittedly, that’s aside from the properties of Svemachrome film (which I’ve never used).
But I like Jörg’s spirit of adventure. Why not, actually? DV pirates are everywhere these days, but who actually shoots on Svemachrome!
Jörg, we’ll help you with transport and import if Svema can supply the quantities you need.
Best regards,
Mirko
Schwedenstahl
Hi Mirko,
If the 16mm Svema works out and we can get hold of the right chemicals for processing it ourselves, I’d be happy to place a large order for 16mm straight away. If you’ve got DS8 or Super 8 as well, I’m in.
It would also be interesting to publicise the whole thing on the relevant narrow-gauge film forums; with the right prepayment arrangements, we could certainly attract a considerable number of interested parties.
Best regards,
Marwan
Schwedenstahl
Oh, and regarding Markus,
I have to say that we should exercise a bit of restraint; I find such attacks on people who simply don’t want to use a camcorder – perhaps because they value a particular look, or, in the case of Kodak film, because they prioritise quality – to be highly inappropriate.
Logically, one could use the same argument to dismiss everyone here who is committed to analogue photography as die-hard traditionalists. I’d like to point out that I shoot on both 16mm and Super 8 film, and I’d like to state quite clearly that there is no digital alternative to them, neither in terms of look nor quality. Anyone who’s happy with the digital result should by all means stick with it and be happy with it. I consider insults involving comparisons to the GDR to be inappropriate.
Regards,
Marwan
Gast
Oleksander, Marwan, Mirko,
I’m actually feeling a bit embarrassed now; I hadn’t expected everyone to go to such lengths. I managed to buy some Kodak film that had expired at a surprisingly low price (I hadn’t counted on that), so I don’t actually need any more film.
A huge thank you for your kind efforts, especially to Oleksander for checking up on me by phone.
I hope I haven’t caused anyone too much trouble.
Good light
Jü
Gast
Joerg,
No problem, I’d simply lost interest. Congratulations on your purchase – it’s certainly not as complicated as having it sent from Ukraine.
We’ll see. I was actually hoping to find out how good the current production is, or whether the film isn’t just some residue that was found in the warehouse.
Oleksander
Gast
Joerg,
if you think you can't manage it or the films are too bad and you don't dare say so – it doesn't matter :ph34r: .
Oleksander
Gast
Hello,
I’ve got nothing against 16mm, but let’s be honest: when I watch 16mm on TV, it’s rarely completely grain-free.
Quite apart from the fact that the film stock is technically outdated, I’m familiar with those Soviet films shot in Sovcolor from the 1950s.
But I don’t need to watch that sort of thing; a perfectly ordinary episode of Tatort from the 1970s is enough – that doesn’t even come close to a modern TV picture, despite modern scanners.
Jörg seems to have seen the light and backtracked.
Markus
arothaus
I’ve got nothing against 16mm, but let’s be honest: when I watch 16mm on TV, it’s rarely completely grain-free.
Quite apart from the fact that the film stock is technically outdated, I’m familiar with those Soviet films shot in Sovcolor from the 1950s.
But I don’t need to watch that stuff; a perfectly ordinary episode of Tatort from the 1970s is enough – that doesn’t even come close to a modern TV picture, despite modern scanners.
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Hello Markus!
On the subject of grain: apparently there are people who use it as a stylistic device.
Otherwise, you do realise that films from the 70s look different today than they did back then? Keywords: archiving and negative stability.
Of course, they looked different back then compared to today’s films, but whether that’s better or worse is always in the eye of the beholder.
Regards,
Andreas
Gast
Jörg,
I think it’s a bit odd to do this at the last minute; you’d better come up with some better excuses, or only ask if you’re absolutely sure.
Otherwise, people will be going to all that trouble for nothing.
Or has good old Markus gone and ruined the Svema for you?
Roland
Gast
Hi Jäg,
Could YOU tell me the source? I’m naturally interested in Kodak material as well. What material did YOU get hold of?
By the way, I’d like to continue discussing the Svema material. Is anyone interested in organising something like that with me???
Best regards,
Marwan
ChristianKolinski
Hello,
I’ve got nothing against 16mm, but let’s be honest: when I watch 16mm on TV, it’s rarely completely grain-free.
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When you watch TV, in 90% of cases you won’t even notice that you’re watching 16mm footage. With the exception of a few telenovelas and soap operas, the vast majority of TV productions still end up on 16mm. This includes recent episodes of Tatort, sitcoms and action series.
And for HDTV – well, there the proportion of 16mm (or more precisely Super 16) is _even_ higher – because the necessary equipment wasn’t available in sufficient quantities or at acceptable prices. That’s only slowly improving.
Quite apart from film stock that is technically obsolete, I’m familiar with the USSR films in Sovcolor from the 1950s.
Ektachrome Professional is rubbish; I’ve seen slides from 1957 – totally colour-cast and faded, absolutely dreadful. I’d never take photos on such rubbish film?
A BMW? I’d never buy one; I know the 1955 Isetta – totally flimsy and with zero crumple zone. And it doesn’t have ABS either.
Stolen pre-war film technology (and that was ‘Sovcolor’ from 1950. I think you mean, for example, the ‘girls’ films from the 50s and 60s that are also known here in the West) – comparing them to semi-recent film material after over 50 years of dubious storage (which, as we know, costs money, and that hasn’t been available since 1991 at the latest...) is hardly fair. Things have changed in the Soviet Union too.
But I don’t even need to watch that sort of thing; a perfectly ordinary episode of *Tatort* from the 1970s is enough – it doesn’t even come close to a current TV picture, despite modern scanners.
That, too, is a storage issue. You can see it very clearly if you have video recordings of an older broadcast. Both have aged – and in very different ways, though typical of their respective media.
You can also often tell from typical film defects (scratches, dust) that it’s one and the same screening copy being passed from broadcaster to broadcaster. 30 years old and played 50 times.
Besides – what modern scanners? You don’t seriously believe that the third channels’ broadcast studios have a different 16mm telecine today than they did in 1980?
Christian
