Scala successor

Gast · 2005-12-26T21:58:12+00:00

Hallo zusammen, als Mittelformat-Liebhaber sind mir die Agfa RSX II 50 und Scala inzwischen sehr vertraut geworden. Nun ja, als Ersatz für den RSX werde ich...

Gast

Hello everyone, As a medium-format enthusiast, I’ve become very familiar with the Agfa RSX II 50 and Scala. Well, as a replacement for the RSX, I’ll have to look for a film from Kodak or Fuji, whether I like it or not. As I’ve already made direct comparisons (changing magazines from a tripod) with Agfa/Kodak/Fuji colour slide films, after someone once gave me ‘the other’ films as a gift, I know pretty much exactly what to expect. I’m more concerned about a potential successor to Scala. AGENZIA LUCE in Trieste, Italy, does offer reversal processing for the Rollei R3 and even specifies a sensitivity of 400 ASA for it, but: as I could read between the lines in Munich, the film has so far also been manufactured by Agfa. As someone experienced in black-and-white processing (though it’s been a few days now) who has never done a reversal process, it’s quite clear to me that the search for a Scala successor must focus on the film stock and the development process. In other words: as things stand, I’ll have to get used to the idea of developing my roll films in future using a JOBO rotary processor (CPE or something similar). In principle, there are several films on the market that are suitable for this. You’ll have to put up with a bit of waste until you’ve found a combination of film, chemicals and processing times that yields something close to 200 ASA and a gradient similar to that of Scala. However, this shouldn’t result in unnecessarily large amounts of chemical waste. With a JOBO rotary drum, you can develop using 240ml per bath. As I only ever have relatively small quantities to develop, it would be rather wasteful to prepare the 940ml of the Kodak reversal kit and then dispose of it after a single film. What strikes me as interesting in this context is that Ilford describes in its reversal processing instructions how to prepare the necessary chemicals based on paper developers. All other baths apart from the developers are specified there (in a pharmacy-compatible manner) in such a way that very small quantities of 240ml solutions can be prepared without any problems. Only the Ilford paper developers mentioned are supplied in powder form and probably need to be mixed with one litre of water (as I recall from the old days). So, just asking the group: does the Ilford recipe work like that? SOLUTION PREPARATION. First Developer: Use either ILFORD BROMOPHEN developer diluted 1+1 or ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL developer diluted 1+5. To the working strength developer add sodium thiosulphate crystals (Hypo). For PAN F Plus add 8g/l, and for FP4 Plus and 100 DELTA Professional add 12g/l. Second developer: ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL diluted 1+9. Could one perhaps use a different paper developer as a base, one whose stock solutions are available in liquid form? Or any negative developer? Which Panchromatic film comes closest to the Scala? Jens

RomanJRohleder

Namd Jems, >But: as I could read between the lines on M*n*chr*m, They tend to spout their opinions rather indiscriminately – don’t read too much into it. >The film has also been manufactured by Agfa up to now. Yeah, yeah, I get it. >Could one perhaps use a different paper developer as a starting point, one whose stock solutions are available in liquid form? Yes. >Or a (any?) negative developer? To a certain extent. It needs to be quite potent. >Which panchromatic film comes closest to the Scala? Fomapan R100 – 35mm only – and Efke R50 – 120 format – work very well in the Foma Dia-Kit (or similar homemade solutions). Roman

Gast

>Could one perhaps use a different paper developer as a starting point, >one whose stock solution(s) are available in liquid form? Yes. > Or a (any?) negative developer? To a certain extent. It needs to be quite potent. >Which panchromatic film comes closest to the Scala? Fomapan R100 (black-and-white only) and Efke R50 (120 format) produce excellent results in the Foma Slide Kit (or similar homemade solutions). Roman [right][post="5565"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]

@Roman , if a negative developer needs to be strong, what does that refer to – the contrast? Does that mean the Efke R50 should also receive the same exposure as if it were 50 ASA when processed as a slide film? What confuses me is that all the negative films recommended for slide processing are low-speed. So what is it that makes the Scala different? Is it the film itself? The development process? Or both?

RomanJRohleder

Jens, >If a negative developer needs to be strong, what does that refer to – the contrast? Yes. And to its ‘developing power’ – how robust it is. >So should the Efke R50 also be exposed as if it were 50 ASA for reversal processing? My impression is: R50@EI40/50, 12 mins, 20°C, agitation. >What confuses me is that all the negative films recommended for reversal processing >are low-speed. Low-speed? Nonsense, 100 ISO is medium-speed. ;-) There are several reasons for this: -High-speed films are more easily compromised by overexposure; to counter this, a stronger anti-halation layer is generally added – usually in the base as a grey base – and this is only of limited benefit in reversal processing. and > So what is it that makes the Scala different? Nothing. In the Fomakit, the Scala comes out at around 100–125 ASA for me. > Is it the film itself? No. > The development process? Yes. -Guess: Agfa uses a pinch of potassium thiocyanate, a silver solvent, in the Scala primary developer. This prevents a high base fog despite longer, steeper development, and the highlights become clear. With thiocyanates (aka Rhodanit) in the Foma-Kit, the final photo is likely to look slightly different. Roman

Gast

Perhaps there are alternatives to developing black-and-white slides yourself after all. I recently saw a roll of T-Max 100 – with an exposure of 50 ISO – that had been developed by Phototechnik in Berlin. They did a very good job of it. I’m even more surprised, however, to read how many films are suitable for this, provided you’re willing to send your films to the US for development. The sample images for the individual films on the website are interesting! --> A proprietary development process for black-and-white slides <--

Stagirit

The quality of the examples is certainly good. Perhaps a bit too good. But what exactly are they doing so much better or differently? Could it be that they’re using toners and completely bleaching out the remaining silver?

Gast

There is something that puzzles me on the dr5 website: in the descriptions of the reversal properties of the individual films, the focus is always on scanability, rather than on projection quality, which is (almost) the only thing I’m interested in. Unfortunately, there are photographers who have tested both the Kodak reversal kit and the dr5 process (both of which use chemical reversal rather than the double exposure employed by Phototechnik Berlin or the Scala process) and are not at all impressed by them, as can be read on the Großformatforum. One user there believes that the results improve if you replace the second developer in the Kodak kit with a conventional developer (Dektol) and a second exposure. Does anyone have any experience with this, or can they shed some light on the chemical/physical principles involved? ;)

Gast

Yes, it works with both the Ilfort formula and the Foma reversal kit. But I strongly recommend you have a read in Sw Magazine (http://www.schwarzweiss-magazin.de/swmag_frame_leser.htm). The reversal process puts a lot of strain on the emulsions; I’ve already had to deal with emulsion separation and lost out.

Gast

I’d like to ask the group once again what causes the colour effects mentioned in connection with the Kodak reversal kit and Tmax 100. I heard at the Impex shop that the slides are supposed to have a pink cast, whereas in other forums people say they have a green cast. Where do these colour effects come from?

Gast

So: Slides developed using the Kodak reversal kit have a slight green cast. You hardly notice it when holding the slides up to the light, but it’s a nuisance when projecting them. However, you can get this under control with Selentoner. A question about contrast. I exposed my first roll of T-Max as if it were 50 ISO, and the slides are too soft for my liking. This document describes how to adjust exposure and development according to the Zone System to control contrast. Kodak states in its J87 documentation that the only way to influence contrast is by altering the formula of the primary developer. Somehow, this seems contradictory. So which is correct?

Gast

So, months later, I’ve finally decided on a replacement for Scala: Ilford FP4 Plus in Rodinal . It’s not that difficult once you know how to do it. Regards, Jens