ultra8
Hi Impexer ;-)
Is there an official price list available yet showing all Ilford products with prices as of 1 January 2006?
If not, which products are going up in price and by how much? I might place a larger order with you later this year...
Regards, Jü
MirkoBoeddecker
Jörg,
We’re not yet entirely sure exactly what we can increase and by how much.
The fact that we have to increase prices stems from the fact that film and paper have now gone up in price for the third time this year, and by the start of the year the margin had already shrunk to such an extent that the costs incurred in delivery, storage, packaging and dispatch were no longer covered by the slim margin.
However, when you look at the cut-throat competition in the photography market, where everyone is doing their own thing without any clear direction or future, there is a real fear that, once again, we will be unable to push through a price increase in the market and the shortfall will be absorbed by the retailers’ residual margin. This will continue until the last price-dumper has finally gone bust, as over 50% of the German photographic retail sector has already demonstrated over the last three years.
As for us, if we cannot raise prices by at least 6–10% on average above the current level (i.e. including the new Ilford increase), we will probably no longer stock any Ilford products from mid-2006 onwards and will have one fewer employee, in order to cut costs and continue to scrape by on reduced turnover.
So, to sum up: nothing is certain as yet, and my wish list to Father Christmas is a 6% increase to at least be able to carry on without making a profit, and a 10% increase so that, if everything goes perfectly smoothly and not a single customer cancels a purchase, nobody falls ill and not a single complaint is received, we might even make a tiny bit of profit on Ilford sales.
That would then amount to a total of approx. 12%.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Will Ilford’s pricing policy also affect films such as Adox CHS? If I’ve understood your catalogue descriptions correctly, there does seem to be a certain similarity between them...
-Emil
cfb_de
Hi Emil,
Just ignore Mirko’s bitter lament and have another look at the catalogue. There is a difference between ‘M’ and ‘S’.
The difference in the origin of the ‘CHM’ and ‘CHS’ films under the ADOX label is just as significant.
If Mirko is sensible, of course, he’ll get the other prices too. For us, the advantage would be that we could use this “hush money” to buy ourselves a few months’ peace from his tears :-) [If only no one gets the idea of making the 50s more expensive, as I’ll need that one again soon...]
Best regards,
Franz
MirkoBoeddecker
Emil,
As Franz has already mentioned, this currently applies only to Ilford products (as well as Kodak and Fuji) – in other words, those products which we stock solely to expand our range and which are also available elsewhere.
It does NOT apply to ADOX, Classic, Foma etc., i.e. products which we distribute, manufacture or have manufactured ourselves, or where we have a price advantage over the competition due to the separation of casting and packaging and the large volumes involved.
Therefore, this thread also does NOT apply to CHM films – more on this in the parallel thread ‘CHM from the roll’.
@ Franz,
I’m not complaining. I’m simply stating a fact. With the internet, a few things have changed in a niche market like ours. Germany is, above all, price-sensitive. Unlike in other countries, for example, the German customer does not value advice, product variety or service. They seek advice wherever they can get it, but then buy wherever the price is cheapest.
This means that the FOTOIMPEX business model in its current form is no longer viable. We have too many highly qualified staff, a location that is too central, and an order-processing system that is too labour-intensive. Or to put it another way: our specialists are paid too much, our city-centre rent is too high, and our telephone order-taking service—which includes advice and suggestions for alternative products—is too expensive to compete with a web shop that offers no telephone advice, operates from a greenfield site, and provides no product support.
I have now spent two years thinking about how to move forward. As a test, I raised the prices for one or two products by 5% above those of others, and immediately sales plummeted to near zero, with the remaining sales going to France.
So we currently have the same attractive price level as competitors who operate as described above, but due to high costs, FOTOIMPEX is now making a small loss for the second year running, despite record sales.
As I have no desire for the ‘me and my online shop plus an untrained temp on a muddy field’ model (I like neither online shops nor muddy fields), from next year we will have to scale back the business step by step and remove all ‘loss-making products’.
This will reduce turnover and the associated workload, and I can cut costs by reducing staff numbers.
If, at the end of this spiral, I find myself back in the shop on my own, that’s fine by me, though I don’t expect that to happen.
In all the years that followed, I never earned as much money as I did in 1997, when I was still on my own, without any staff, in the shop on Reinhardtstraße.
I had less stress back then, and I didn’t have to scrape together something like 100% continued pay in the event of illness every other week.
But perhaps things will turn out differently after all, and a miracle will happen, allowing us to add a 30% gross margin again, as in the old days, to cover transport, returns, wages, postage, rent, heating, electricity, sick leave, holidays, public holidays, advertising, etc. Then I’ll be able to keep my staff and perhaps even set up a parallel online shop and expand the range.
C’est la vie. Things will work out somehow.
Ilford, along with Kodak, is simply the first thing that has to go if nothing changes.
I’ll only do everything mentioned above – with the exception of the bit about ‘the miracle’ – if there’s absolutely no other option, and I’m reluctant to do so. But I can’t afford to lose any more money either; something has to change. The stock has already shrunk so much that we’ll soon be unable to deliver, and then we’d have to shut everything down, which really makes no sense for anyone.
Best regards,
Mirko
Stagirit
Kodak and Ilford are simply trying to squeeze the same profits out of a shrinking market.
As long as quality awareness plays only a negligible role in the purchasing decision, little will change for shops like FOTOIMPEX. And as a retailer, there is no future either, as it is becoming increasingly attractive for manufacturers to sell directly, particularly in niche markets. Then they set up a forum or wiki where customers and interested parties can discuss the products. The retailer who provides advice is, of course, the one left holding the baby; they can only survive by doing something that no one else is capable of.
How many ambitious amateur photographers will there still be in Germany? More than 200?
In a few years’ time, things will get worse rather than better, at the latest when I can select ‘Ilford HP5 in Perceptol’ from a digital camera’s menu.
Of the five large photography shops that used to be here in Nuremberg, there are now only two left; I expect one of them to go bust in the spring, and the other is trying to stay afloat with a minilab and digital prints. Not to mention all the smaller shops.
Then we have a professional lab, which also serves the camera and digital sectors. Fortunately, the lab manager is a photography enthusiast himself and is ambitious, so he makes an effort to cater to even unusual requests, even if he makes no profit from them.
Apart from the fact that digital photography has taken the mainstream market by storm, it now also caters to many amateurs (with the first SLRs becoming affordable). If you then develop your own film as well, you’re really something of a rarity.
Even though I find it sad myself, I’m certain that analogue photography will die out in the long run. Not because nobody wants to work with analogue anymore, but because the retailers are disappearing, as are the manufacturers of the film and equipment.
We can’t produce the materials ourselves either, because we simply won’t be able to get hold of the chemicals anymore. I held the opposite view for a long time, but since I already have to order materials from Thuringia and Berlin, and even from really good retailers I keep hearing: ‘We don’t have any more and we don’t know if or when we’ll get it back in stock,’ I’ve had to bury my optimism.
MirkoBoeddecker
Stagirit,
I naturally see things differently.
What’s happening on the manufacturers’ side and with product availability is a whole other discussion. At the moment, retailers are needlessly tearing each other apart. That’s the problem. The manufacturers dictate what they need to have, and that’s fine as far as I’m concerned. But then the cut-throat competition starts among the retailers.
We’ve never been expensive, but we’ve also never sold below cost in all these years.
Analogue photography isn’t going to die out, of course. Not least because the past year was another smash hit in terms of turnover. A new record.
In the consumer sector, everything will become 100% digital. Analogue colour photography will be reduced to a niche existence similar to that of black-and-white photography since the mid-90s. That means further billions in turnover will be lost for analogue.
Both niches combined naturally amount to far more than 200 people in Germany.
It remains a market worth tens of millions. However, it used to be a billion-euro market, and it was for this market that most Western manufacturers designed their machinery.
We have been focused on the black-and-white niche from the very beginning and are therefore unaffected by the changes in the consumer sector.
The products that some of you are used to may no longer be available, but new ones will take their place. If necessary, we can also produce in very small batches ourselves. There will always be raw materials that are suitable; it may simply be necessary to reduce the speed of the films.
That is why we are already focusing more strongly on manufacturers who, purely from the perspective of capital commitment in their production organisation, have a chance of continuing to produce photographic material for many years to come.
I’ll gladly leave the miserable business of ‘run-of-the-mill goods’ at dumping prices (measured by the margin possible with a fixed retailer’s cost price) to those who want to tear each other’s eyes out over it, unless something changes soon.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Well, I shop at Impex because they stock Adox films.
And I take analogue photos because I enjoy the process.
If I ever have to switch to digital photography, I’ll give up the hobby.
A grayscale analogue photo is simply more authentic!
On that note, I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas!
Phil
cfb_de
Hi Mirko,
Just so you don’t get the wrong idea:
"hush money" to buy us a few months’ peace from his tears :-) [If only no one gets the idea to make the 50-euro note more expensive, because I’ll need it again soon...]
I meant that as seriously as I’ve rarely meant anything in my life ;-)
Best wishes, Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year!
Franz
MirkoBoeddecker
Franz,
I’ve already got that. Especially since you said I could go ahead and raise the prices – just not for the film you’re buying ;)
Best wishes and happy holidays,
Mirko
Gast
:
This means that the FOTOIMPEX business model, in its current form, is no longer fit for purpose. We have too many highly qualified staff, a location that is too central, and an order-processing system that is too labour-intensive. Or to put it another way: our specialists are paid too much, our city-centre rent is too high, and our telephone order-taking service – which includes advice and suggestions for alternative products – is too expensive to compete with a web shop that offers no telephone advice, operates from a greenfield site, and provides no product support.
:
Good evening Mirke,
I rarely post on forums like this. But I have a request: keep going. I like your shop, I’ve benefited from the advice and I won’t buy elsewhere just for the sake of 10 cents per film. I think your initiatives are great – you’re keeping products going that are dying out elsewhere.
On the subject of an online shop: I’d still like to have one. But I’d also like the option to ring you. Perhaps you could have another think about it and find a student who’d set it up for a few quid.
--Uwe (10811)
cfb_de
Hello Uwe,
I would like to continue receiving good service and reliable information about availability. I also want my supplier to be consistent in their processes and I appreciate a personal service. Ultimately, it’s a bit like dealing with a ‘high-street shop’ or ‘specialist retailer’, even from several hundred kilometres away.
That’s why I find it difficult when the idea of a web shop *and* telephone ordering is put forward.
With the online shop, the customer does everything themselves and interacts directly with the supplier’s ERP system. Now, someone asks a question via the telephone service... At that moment, two different processes are being fed via three channels (the ERP system, the telephone service asking colleagues verbally, and the customer using the phone and, of course, not having their order number to hand).
Preventing this chaos requires effort (i.e. money) or massive service restrictions that undermine the telephone service (“No, I’m afraid I can’t provide any information about your online orders. They’re already in our system and are being processed automatically. Please understand that this is solely to ensure your order is processed reliably and quickly.”) and thus reduce it to the level of a telecoms call centre.
And because Mirko now also generates a good portion of his turnover in the shop (which, incidentally, I also help to run alongside the telephone service), it simply makes sense for him to do without a web shop, in our own interests.
As a customer in Sindelfingen, I certainly don’t want to pay for the extra costs in Berlin arising from a stable web shop process. The way things are now works fine, and that’s enough for me.
After all, an email to info@... is almost as good as a web shop; you actually get a personal reply with reliable delivery promises, rather than an automated “yes, yes, order received – this is not a delivery promise; the whole thing only becomes binding once we’ve debited the invoice amount from your account”.
Another supplier (not the one in Hatten) once surprised me: they have a web shop, are a one-man operation and also provide a phone number. I tried calling them one afternoon on a weekday because I was interested in the dispatch date (a similar issue to the one we had here recently with the Barytroll).
“Yes, if you’ve received a reply email, then that’s fine. I can’t say any more about it right now; I’m mowing the lawn. I don’t have a computer on my lawnmower.” We then bumped into each other at a photography event and had a good laugh about it. I think it’s lovely when things get a bit human sometimes.
Best regards,
Franz
Goetz
Price rises are inevitable. Good service and a good range of products cost money. This ‘cheap is cool’ mentality is destroying not only the retail sector but also our jobs in the long run.
I think it’s a shame to see posts suggesting you find a student to build you a web shop for next to nothing. Yes, that’s what they do, but they don’t have enough money to support themselves, and they’re destroying jobs for qualified programmers. This wage and price dumping will ruin us all in the end.
I’m a programmer, and so is my son. Unfortunately, Junior is now ill and can only work six hours a day; he has MS. How often has he heard people say, ‘I’ll just get a student who works twice as long and gets paid half as much’?
The consumer decides what they get and what happens to their job. But this is the wrong way to go. Shop where you get advice and pay for that advice too; then we’ll all benefit – namely, a secure income, affordable products and good advice.
Goetz
