PhilippReichmuth
Hello,
I’m thinking of switching from the FP4/CHM125 and HP5/CHM400 films I currently use most in my darkroom to loading my own roll film by the metre, to save money and avoid always being restricted to 36 exposures per film. I have a few beginner’s questions about this, to keep the whole thing affordable for me:
- How essential is a film loader in practice? As someone with clumsy hands, can I still manage to wind film in my existing darkroom without a loader, or will it be too much of a faff?
- Can I change the film in the film loader without too much trouble, or should I expect to need a separate loader for each roll of film? The film loader does significantly increase the initial investment. (Yeah, yeah, I wasn’t paying attention in Steinkimmen. :D)
- How well and how often can film cartridges be reused? The ADOX ones I’m currently using seem to be doing quite well in that respect.
- Mirko, is it intentional and/or is there a reason why, according to the catalogue, you only offer CHM 400 by the metre, but not CHM 125?
Thanks -
Philipp
Roman
Philipp,
On eBay, second-hand film loaders usually go for 10 euros (or less)...
Roman
uworischki
Hi Phillip
"...it’s also possible to load film without a film loader in the darkroom you already have..."
In principle, yes – but I don’t know anyone who can count out 36 frames just by looking at the film perforations....
"...Can I change the film in the film loader without too much trouble, or do I need to expect that I’ll need a separate loader for each film?..."
Of course you can change the film without any trouble. Out of the loader, back into the canister... but it’s obviously easier to buy a few more cassettes and perform the processing of the whole roll or wind it in completely. 20 cassettes certainly don’t cost the earth.
"...How well and how often can film cassettes be reused.."
There’s certainly no ‘lifetime’ guarantee, but I have old Orwo cassettes with screw caps, and they’re still airtight.
Uwe
heinrich
Hi Phillip,
You don’t need a film loader either; just measure out the length you want... A friend of mine does this now and then when he’s feeling particularly thrifty. To measure it, simply stick two thick strips of adhesive tape onto the table at the right distance apart so that you can feel them even in the dark.
Personally, I prefer the film loader. It’s much more convenient and works in daylight too.
Best regards,
Heinrich
cfb_de
Hi Uwe,
> but I don’t know anyone who can count out 36 frames just by feeling the film perforations....
Eight notches make one frame. For 36, you simply need to count 320 notches (36 exposures, three at the front for winding in, one at the back for the residue). It’s trivial if you still have the necessary dexterity in your fingers.
Those with clumsier fingers measure out a good metre and sixty-five centimetres; that works too and can be done with a folding rule.
Those using more primitive ‘proper’[tm] cameras without ‘rewind intelligence’ or a built-in frame counter simply wind as much film into the can as possible until nothing more fits, and then count from the end of the counter themselves. Depending on the film and the can, that’s between 42 and 48 frames plus the opening and closing credits.
But I prefer my Füllfix too.
SCNR,
Franz
MirkoBoeddecker
Phillip,
Following the latest price increase on 1 January 2006, our old prices will be almost exactly 50% of the new Ilford prices.
New raw materials will cost almost twice as much as those currently in use from the Ilford Ltd era, which means our prices will also have to rise by around 25% or even more.
In view of this price trend, we can no longer offer the film by the metre as far as CHM is concerned.
However, I can offer you Classic 200 and 400 at a very favourable price. Expiry dates 2005/2006.
Best regards,
Mirko
PhilippReichmuth
Hi Mirko,
Thanks for the Classic, but I’ll give that a miss for now. I’m very happy with CHM and don’t want to have to get used to a new film again.
Do you still have a few left over from old stock, or has it all been snapped up?
Philipp
MirkoBoeddecker
Phillip,
There are still 2–3 rolls left, but they’ll probably sell out in the shop today or tomorrow.
We’re currently adding 5 EUR to each roll :D
The price for the old stock was also calculated far too cheaply.
It’s very labour-intensive to assemble and pack these rolls if you’re not having 1,000 made. But we wouldn’t have had enough material for that quantity...
That’s how it was.
Best regards,
Mirko
PhilippReichmuth
Hi Mirko,
Thanks for the info. Could you put one of the CHM400 rolls to one side for me? Miss Mikloska has been processing an order of mine since the day before yesterday, which I was planning to pick up on Monday; perhaps she could just add it to that.
I’ve just compared the prices with those of the original FP4/HP5. Are the Ilford prices in the catalogue the new ones or the old ones?
Best regards,
Philipp
MirkoBoeddecker
Phillip,
You’ll need to sort out anything to do with specific orders directly with the girls.
I always try to reply promptly here, but I’m not always at the shop and it’s simply impossible for me to take and manage ‘orders’ via the internet as well.
You can’t yet compare with original Ilford prices because the new prices haven’t been published by anyone yet.
In future, we won’t be able to remain competitive with Ilford’s original products when it comes to film sold by the metre. That’s exactly what Ilford is aiming for with this raw material price increase. Whether we’ll be able to continue offering ready-made films at affordable prices once the raw material is used up is currently anyone’s guess.
With a pre-packaged film, 50% of the price is the film and 50% is labour and the cassette, etc.
A doubling of the raw material price therefore only means an approx. 30% increase in the retail price.
With a product like film sold by the metre, the maths simply no longer adds up.
The new Ilford list price is: €49 net per roll.
Plus handling, the expected retail price for dealers would be around €55.
Below that, it is not economically viable to offer the product.
So we’re actually in a very good position at the moment with a retail price of €29, aren’t we?
Best regards,
Mirko
PhilippReichmuth
You'll have to sort out everything to do with specific orders with the girls yourself.
I see.
You can’t compare them with original Ilford prices yet because the new prices haven’t been published by anyone yet.
Well, you can with the old ones ;)
In future, we won’t be able to compete on price with Ilford’s original products when it comes to film sold by the metre. That’s exactly what Ilford is aiming for with this raw material price increase. Whether we’ll still be able to offer ready-made films at affordable prices once the raw material runs out is currently anyone’s guess.
I think it makes perfect business sense for Ilford. Personally, the main reason I don’t buy original FP4 is because CHM125 is cheaper; as far as I’m concerned, Ilford is essentially competing with itself for now. :)
That said, on my student budget, given the new Ilford prices, I’ll be looking in the long run for a new, roll-formatted film in the 80–100 ASA range until my budget allows for more. (In that respect, as a customer, I’m currently facing a classic lose-lose situation with Ilford anyway.) In the long run, it’ll probably come down to a shootout between Efke and Foma 100. A shame, as the Foma doesn’t come out quite as nicely in my current favourite developer, ADX A+B.
Philipp
oliverdienst
Hello Mirko,
I’ve just read that you (20 Dec 2005) can supply Classicpan 400 by the metre, expiry date 2005/2006.
Can you explain to me why, when I placed my order on 2 December 2005, I received Classicpan 400 30.5-metre rolls with an expiry date of November 2004?
If the product you are offering is the 'new' version, I would be grateful if you could send me two 30.5-metre rolls with an expiry date of 2006, to be credited against my account.
Oliver
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Oliver,
Sending out expired goods just like that was a mistake on the part of the packer, and Lidija has, after all, credited you with the full amount. She’s going to be in serious trouble with me over this, because, as I’ve already made clear elsewhere, we’re no longer making a profit, and giving away two rolls just like that means we now have to generate 500 EUR in turnover for free to make up for the loss. In a case like this, we’re actually only allowed to offer a maximum of 20% off; otherwise, the item must be returned.
The rolls that are still here are, without exception, Classic 200. It was my mistake. There were two stacks there and I thought one was 400 and the other 200. They are all dated 11/2005.
According to Forte, both emulsions are NEW.
Regards,
Mirko
oliverdienst
Hi Mirko,
Thanks for your reply!
Please don’t give Lidija too much trouble – I’ve got the film rolls sitting here unopened in the fridge, so I can send them back to you at any time. What she offered me was, after all, a commendable attempt at customer service and loyalty. So don’t worry about the extra 500 euros in turnover; we’ll sort that out -> I’ll send you a PM tomorrow.
Incidentally, I believe you could certainly generate more turnover if the availability of the papers and films on offer were reasonably guaranteed, or if you could specify when they’ll be restocked. For example, due to repeated unclear delivery situations, I’ve unfortunately had to say goodbye to the lovely Adox PW; it’s a similar story with the ClassicPan 400, even though I still try to order some every now and then ;) .
Oliver
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Oliver,
I don’t know how long you’ve been reading the forum.
So here’s an abstract of the situation regarding Classicpan and Polywarmton:
Both Classicpan and PW are, and were, supplied by Forte.
When they went into administration, nobody could supply them anymore – except us.
I was in Vac just before the administration and secured the remaining materials and unprocessed raw goods for us.
We then laboriously carted it halfway across Europe to get finished stock back on the shelves as soon as possible.
During the ‘total insolvency’ (the period when nothing was leaving the factory gates), we were the only ones who could temporarily still offer the full range from our own warehouse.
However, things dragged on longer than expected, and eventually we too ran out of stock.
This was followed by a period where we had to pre-finance production as Forte no longer had any raw materials. This meant paying and ordering today and receiving goods in 3–6 months. It goes without saying that not everything you need always arrives when the goods do, as I can’t read minds and had to guess what was most likely to be needed.
This went on until late autumn, with more or less reliable availability.
At no point, however, was nothing available at all – there was almost always a different size or a different finish to the one requested.
Currently, availability for the PW has been restored to almost 100%. All formats and all finishes are available. Forte has just delivered.
Provided there are no further disasters, things should continue as they are, with an average availability of 85–95%.
The same applies to the Classicpan. Pre-cut films are available in sufficient quantities; it’s just the roll stock (which nobody buys, which is why the rolls are sitting in stock!) that’s temporarily out of stock. We simply didn’t want to reorder when there was still so much expired stock in the warehouse.
It is impossible to keep every single finish and every size in stock at all times with a lead time of 2–5 months. This has never been the case – not even with other manufacturers.
Best regards,
Mirko
cfb_de
Hi Mirko,
there was almost always a different size or finish than the one I wanted.
Sometimes I envy you for your subtle pre-Christmas humour ;-)
Seriously. You can’t/aren’t allowed to say it, so I’ll do it now:
‘Expired films’ are no big deal. If stored properly (which you do), this stuff lasts *significantly* longer than the printed date, which refers to storage at room temperature in a living room cupboard.
So even today, using a roll that ‘expired’ at the end of 2004 is no drama, and the supplier’s offer of a refund or discount is a combination of a ‘Christmas present’ and ‘goodwill’.
However, the same cannot be said for MG paper. In that case, it appears that the paper needs to mature after casting (which is why there must be no ‘fresh’ stock on the market, as this does not yet meet the specification regarding contrast range). Furthermore, hardly any manufacturers there specify “expiry dates”, so that their larger stock levels can still be sold off without the customer having any grounds for complaint (you don’t do that – an advantage of small-batch production and a major plus point for your shop!).
That’s why I would never buy MG paper on eBay, certainly not opened packs or older stock. It gets softer over time and develops the softest image tones (the old Croatian emulsion from the Dutch yellow boxes, for example, turned a lovely pale blue; MG IV ‘cracks’ even less).
In any case, I’m not surprised that my HP5+ roll film, which expired in early 2005, is still as good as new. But I am wondering about the following: How did you manage to get the Vary*** emulsion to go from 000 to 4 just a few days after it was poured? Roman has just told me something amazing about that.
I’ll give it a go between the holidays; until then, the roll is still waiting in the cellar.
And then, like an idiot, I completely forgot to place the PW order. Now I’ve run out after all those 13x18 calendars for the colleagues (they’re actually buying them :-) Never mind, I’ll order some next year, and I’ll need R50 again then. I’ll ring/email/get someone to bring the stuff back from Berlin. As usual.
Merry Christmas, have fun with the end-of-year wrap-up
Franz
Schwedenstahl
Hello,
What about the expired stock – is that available too? How much does the expired fabric cost?
Kind regards,
Marwan
cfb_de
Hi Marwan,
Why don’t you just give the shop in Berlin a ring first thing tomorrow morning? Mirko will be able to tell you the price beforehand. But off the top of his head, he won’t know what’s still in stock once he’s already at home.
Merry Christmas!
Franz
