Stagirit
Is it even possible to develop photographic paper in reverse?
Which types of paper are suitable for this?
What do I need to bear in mind?
RomanJRohleder
It is possible. There are several approaches, including reverse development and solarisation – Orwo used to produce DPP (direct positive paper), which was essentially their standard baryta paper with a specific pre-exposure.
TT provided guidance in the old SW-Diakit on processing Vario Comfort and Vario Ultra, i.e. MG4 and MCP; Mr Buddelmann will send the instructions as a PDF on request; if you reply to me by Sunday lunchtime, I can send them to you as well.
In principle, it’s a balancing act – Christian Kolinski tried it once and struggled with a high level of base fog; something like that can certainly be compensated for by balancing the exposure and the initial development.
Roman
hambo
Hello,
Well, in theory it’s possible. You’d need to use a slowed positive developer – one containing KBr, for example – or perform dilution, and for the rest of the process, just as with film processing, use a strong paper developer such as Eukobrom as the second developer. However, I’d recommend using gradation paper (soft) to bridge the contrast of the slide.
It works better with a black-and-white internegative, as that gives you two opportunities to influence the contrast.
Regards, Jürgen :D
Stagirit
Thanks, I'll give it a go.
Gast
Hi,
Spence and Worobiec describe a reversal process based on sulphur toner (sulphide), originally intended for producing internegatives.
Expose the paper, develop it, sulphur-tone the undeveloped/positive image, bleach and fix the negative. What remains is the sulphur positive. The problem, as with all reversal processes, is that the base exposure and gradient have nothing at all to do with the standard process, but must be worked out through trial and error.
Regards
Martin
RomanJRohleder
Martin,
I tried the same thing once with sepia toner (>thiourea) and Blix. In principle it works, but the base fog is and remains extremely pronounced (the same issue arises when processing film using this method, as it tans the metallic silver and even the bare support).
It’s no fun...
Roman
ChristianKolinski
Hello,
> However, the base fog remains extremely pronounced (the same issue arises with film processing in this method, where metallic silver and even the bare support are tanned).
Which, of course, doesn’t matter for the application Spence/Worobiec are aiming for (internegative) – base fog is there to be printed through (or something like that). It’s just that it looks a bit dodgy in projection or as a paper positive.
Conventional reversal:
For a first attempt: Ilford Ilfospeed (hard type), heavily exposed, primary development in N113 for 2 mins, bleaching and clearing with Foma reversal kit, second exposure 1 min, 40W. Second development in N113, fixing.
Significant base fog; Ilfospeed produces a ‘warm’ image tone, in my humble opinion.
Post-bleaching with Farmer or similar is possible, but always results in significant wastage...
Planned improvements (time permitting): Initial developer with KBr and/or initial development with film developer.
Certainly a nice little project for long Christmas winter evenings when you escape to the basement to get away from the gathered family chaos :D
Christian
Stagirit
Could the high level of base fog be due to the chemicals incorporated into the base layer of the paper?
Actually, I’d really like to have a direct positive, as I’ve upgraded my Laborator 138s with a shutter and Larka back, so I can now shoot in 13x18 format.
Hmm, actually, I could also use the film unit from the old exposure unit on the stage.
PhilippReichmuth
I think the method using an internegative is simpler. You can expose it onto print film, develop it softly and then contact print it onto paper. You won’t have any problems with base fog or multigrade paper; instead of one unknown process, you have two that are well understood; you have full control over the final image twice rather than none at all; and you can reuse the internegative.
SamuliSchielke
I agree with Philipp. Another option, though only in small formats and rather expensive, is Polaroid. I’ve never tried it myself, but I might soon be making a few black-and-white prints from colour slides, and as orthochromatic print film isn’t ideal for this, I’m considering simply printing them on large-format Polaroid.
Samuli
hambo
Hello,
Well, making black-and-white internegatives is quite simple. I learnt how to do it 20 years ago using the following method, which may not appeal to the theorist, but has practically always worked with good results.
Enlarge the slide onto sheet film (6×9 or 4×5) using an enlarger, or set it to 1:1. For best results, use contact printing too, but watch out for dust!
Stop down the lens by about 4–6 stops and perform exposure for one second. This also applies to contact printing.
Kodak Plus X pan was our go-to film back then, and it’s still available today. Then develop for 7 minutes in Microdol X or Rodinal 1:50 – I’m afraid I don’t have the exact time for that to hand.
If the negatives have slightly higher density than normal, no problem – they’re still on the flat part of the curve :) .
And if you don’t like the grey-scale reproduction, a black-and-white filter or the colour-mixing head work just as they do when shooting in the camera.
Regards, Jürgen
Gast
Roman!
Orwo used to make DPP, direct positive paper, which was basically their standard baryta paper with a specific pre-exposure.
Do you think you can manage that yourself, because you write as if it were easy?
I want to give it a go; it should work with a strong lamp.
Oleksander
RomanJRohleder
Oleksander,
>>Orwo used to make DPP, direct-positive paper, which was basically their >>standard baryta paper with a specific pre-exposure.
>Do you think you can manage it yourself, because you write as if it were >easy?
I didn’t actually mean to give that impression; in principle it’s a simple process, but you have to get it spot on, with very precise control.
A hell of a job combined with a bit of luck?
>I’ll give it a go; it should work with a strong lamp.
I’d actually tend towards a lamp that isn’t too strong... a flash would probably work best; it’s also the easiest to control.
Give it a go, keep a record of your process and let us know how it goes. ;-)
Roman
Gast
Roman,
Let's see if I can find the time and the inclination; if so, I'll let you know the results.
Oleksander
Gast
Roman,
I spoke on the phone to a chemist in Shostka (Swema), who said that Orwo carried out solarisation using chemicals rather than light, as the process isn’t consistent enough when using light – it simply doesn’t work in practice.
Best regards,
Oleksander
