Gast
Hello!
I’d like to give lith printing a go for the first time. However, as I don’t like bright colours—especially red, orange and brown—in my prints, I’ve decided to try lith printing on baryta paper using Moersch chemicals; cold-tone papers are said to produce a less pronounced colour effect in the highlights, and in some cases the shadows should be less pronounced (which also suits my taste).
So, which paper?
- ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic FB: Described by Moersch as suitable, but is only available in glossy in a few sizes (and he no longer lists ‘my’ size of 30x40 in glossy).
Question: Which paper available on the market (where?) corresponds to the ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic FB?
- Classic Arts Polykaltton (distributed by FOTOIMPEX) is described by Moersch as “Lith paper only for masochists”, mainly because of the long development time (understandably so, because who actually likes waiting 30 minutes for every test strip?). However, in Moersch’s sample images, I really like the tone of Classic Arts Polykaltton – I would only put up with the long development time if I had a relatively “foolproof” formula that saves me from having to experiment for ages.
1. Does anyone have any ideas where to find glossy cold-tone baryta paper that works well with Moersch’s toners?
2. Does anyone know under which name ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic FB is still available on the market (and where)?
3. Is there any “masochist” amongst you with experience of Classic Arts Polykalt-Ton (= Forte Polygrade, which isn’t listed in any well-stocked shops anymore either)?
Thanks in advance for your replies!
Johannes
MirkoBoeddecker
?em,
Well, Wolfgang (Moersch) is successfully selling our paper, but of course you can always buy it from us if he happens to be out of stock.
www.FOTOIMPEX.de or simply click on one of the buttons above.
The paper is called ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic and is sometimes referred to simply as Vario Classic.
Best regards,
Mirko
ADOX FOTOIMPEX, Berlin
cfb_de
Hi Johannes,
Wolfgang is usually very honest in his process descriptions. He’s actually tested what he says; otherwise, he wouldn’t mention it.
And if you want to achieve the desired results with his chemistry and your chosen paper without testing it first (which should work thanks to Wolfgang’s work), then you’ll just have to go through with it. It’s tough, but there’s no getting round it.
Apart from that: the ‘Lith’ process is probably the biggest playground for tweaking parameters, just behind in-situ toned black-and-white slides with direct grain control. Take note!
Is that enough of a cheerful hint? Hopefully.
It’s not without reason that the experts put experimentation before success.
And you do that yourself. At home and with your own process (which is difficult to stabilise with Lith, though).
Best regards,
Franz
Gast
Hello Johannes,
I don’t have any experience with Classic Arts papers, but I can recommend Fomabrom if you like lith prints but don’t want them in colour. I made my first lith print on Fomabrom, and only realised later that it’s MUCH easier with Warmton. But you don’t have to be a masochist to print on Fomabrom – though you do need to be patient. You get prints with very beautiful and finely defined highlights and rich, deep shadows. Initially for peppercorn grain, but that’s what the C solution in the Master Set is for. The colour of the highlights varies from beige through ochre and umber to cement grey. Then tone with selenium, and you’ll have very fine, delicately coloured grey tones that certainly aren’t garishly colourful like lith prints on warm-tone papers, but are still coloured—though you often only notice this because the image looks different when viewed under a different light source.
Here is an example. The colours aren’t quite right (the scanner’s colour settings weren’t optimal and I had to make corrections, and it’s very difficult to achieve the exact original tone), but it should still give you an idea. A heavily diluted solution and overexposed by 3 to 4 stops (this means that even the highlights come out quite dark. If you want more white in the highlights, use a shorter exposure and a stronger solution), followed by thorough use of a selenium toner.
http://www.samuli-schielke.de/galleries/minareetti.htm
Enjoy!
Samuli
Gast
Hello Samuli,
Thank you very much for your very helpful reply – it was a great help!
Best regards,
Johannes
RWSchueller
Hello,
I’ve been working with Classic Arts PWT and PKT and Moersch Lith. The warm-tone paper is brilliant, but I don’t think the cool-tone paper is quite of the same quality – the highlights don’t come out as well.
You can definitely bring out the colour tones again with selenium toner. I use Kodak at 1:30 for 2–3 minutes.
Enjoy,
R. Schöller.
Gast
Hi Johannes,
What do you think of the following approach (Samusi had already touched on this):
Use a warm-toned paper and then perform toning to remove the colour.
For a cool tone, I’d recommend Tetenal Gold; it takes a very long time to turn bluish.
My experience with Vario Classic (here, for once, I disagree with Wolfgang Moersch): like Polykalt, for masochists – actually worse.
Regards
Martin
MirkoBoeddecker
We, too, do not recommend ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic as a lith paper due to the very long processing times required at high dilutions to achieve a clean lith print.
However, if you’re willing to put in the effort, you’ll end up with some beautifully glowing red prints.
You can also achieve nice results with toning, but it’s not quite the same.
As a beginner, though, I’d steer clear of it and go for Polywarmton :rolleyes:
Mirko
SamuliSchielke
Or Fomatone. With gold toner, you can indeed tone down the colours if you wish, and PWT also becomes considerably less colourful when selenium is used. The difference with warm-tone papers such as Polowarmton or Fomatone, however, is that in my experience they tend to render shadows with greater nuance during the lith process, whereas with a paper like Fomabrom there is a dramatic and sudden transition to completely grainy black.
Samuli
Gast
Lith on Forte Polygrade V is easy enough to use, despite the slightly longer development times. It produces muted yellow-brown tones and very deep blacks – quite beautiful, I think. I process it in Fotospeed. Fomabrom is also beautiful and, like Polywarmtone, produces slightly more vibrant results in Lith.
Regards, Jaap Jan :rolleyes:
Gast
Hi Mirko,
There it is again, that bright red.
Moersch just before it’s ready to drink, even with the colour additive (was that Lith F?), over 10 minutes of development and still only a slightly beige tone.
How’s that supposed to work with the red??? Add spoonfuls of potassium bromide?
In my experiments, Polykalt is more colourful.
Regards
Martin
Gast
Hello!
Thank you so much for your replies – they’re really helpful, and I’m already looking forward to my first attempts with Lith!!!
One more question:
According to the instructions, Moersch Lith D is diluted 1:4. Does that mean, for example, that to add 20 ml of Lith D solution, I first mix 4 ml with 16 ml of water and then add that to the rest of the mixture???
Thanks again and best regards!
Johannes
