Gast
Hello experts,
I’ve got a rather silly problem with film development and I need your advice.
After developing 24 rolls of Fomapan R100 using the Foma reversal development kit, the emulsion side of the last two rolls is now ruined. There seem to be sticky residues on the film emulsion and the gelatin is crumbling. First, a few words about my process. After fixing, I rinse using the Ilford method. Then the film goes into a final bath of distilled water and Mirasol for one minute. After that, I spin it in a salad spinner and let it dry for an hour.
When I first encountered this disaster with the penultimate film, I rinsed the film again. After drying, most of the spots had disappeared, but the damaged film layer remained.
I’ve just developed another film and it again shows the sticky residues and the crumbling of the film layer. This time, of course, I double-checked everything and my water for the intermediate rinse was 20.4°C. I now suspect my wetting agent. Can Mirasol go off? The stuff has a shelf life of about 4 years. I use 2.5ml per 1000ml. It is completely clear and transparent, with no odour and no precipitation. Incidentally, the stains or damage to the film layer are more common on the light areas of the film than on the dark areas. Even on the otherwise clear film leader.
Does anyone recognise this problem? I’ve never had this with my black-and-white negatives, but then the film isn’t exposed to chemicals and water for quite so long. And it’s worked 24 times before.
Regards,
Andreas Verborg
Gast
Andreas,
perhaps you used different emulsion numbers?
Roland
MirkoBoeddecker
Andreas,
The haze in an emulsion is also determined by the age of the film.
In other words, newly produced films aren’t as hard as older ones.
Rather than the Mirasol, I’d suspect the salad spinner. Have you tried checking before spinning to see if the defect is already visible?
Do you have haze in the fixer?
Best regards,
Mirko
RomanJRohleder
GNARR. Spent ages writing this, then crashed the browser just before sending it. Here goes again:
Evening Mirko,
as I’ve already mentioned on the Hattener forum regarding the same topic – I also came across one of those wimpy Foma films back in June.
At the drf meet-up at Buchenau Castle, I ran a short workshop on ‘black-and-white slides’; over the course of 6 or 7 runs, we developed 20 to 25 films of various types.
During a large batch of 5 films (IIRC APX, Scala and 2 Foma R100 from two different batches), one of the Czech films came out of the stabiliser bath as described by Andreas (from the TT 5l E6 kit, which had been in use all weekend).
It only became really noticeable during drying: a swollen, clear gelatine emulsion had formed over the film, and the subject was, if I recall correctly, visible as a relief. It looks as though snails had been racing, and the relief remains even after the emulsion has dried completely.
We didn’t use a salad spinner, no squeegees, no fingers, no Mistral – just a clothesline and 18°C warm room air. The temperature was monitored; there were no major deviations either way.
Apart from this one Foma and a poorly double-exposed APX100, there were no major issues.
Anke had bought a handful of films and slide kits in May or June during a visit to a shop and used them all up; only this one showed signs of swelling. The batch number is no longer available; after a phone call and a conversation with your employee Lutz, the response was ‘processing/user error’, whereupon she, slightly exasperated, threw the whole lot in the bin.
5 films, including 2 Foma R100s from different batches (the other came from a fresh roll of film with an expiry date in 2007), all films in perfect condition – except for one Foma: user error?
Should Anke get in touch with you again after her holiday? She’s a little frustrated and would at least like to scan her pictures – but that’ll probably only work if they’re mounted between glass, in an oil film, with the risk of total destruction.
Cheers,
Roman
MirkoBoeddecker
Roman,
Unfortunately, without the emulsion number, there’s really nothing I can do.
The likelihood that it was a user error is somewhat reduced by the process you’ve described, but ultimately I can’t test or reproduce the issue if only one film out of ten shows this phenomenon and I don’t have the emulsion number :-(
Lutz can’t remember telling anyone off for a ‘user error’. He says he replied that he had no idea what had happened, and to be honest, I feel exactly the same.
All we can do – provided we’re given the emulsion number and can see the fault – is send it to Foma for testing and identify the relevant batch number.
But as neither of these was made available to him, he logically just shrugged his shoulders.
In this context, however, I would be interested in the batch number from Andreas.
Can you still find that out?
I would like to isolate this batch for the time being.
Regards,
Mirko
PS: our margins on Foma are just as rock-bottom as they are on Fuji. Only the Czechs are making any money, so they should foot the bill for their own mistakes. We are not responsible for compensation or replacement. Of course, we will try to pass everything on to Foma and support you in this, but we simply need everything from you that the manufacturer requires from us in order to process a complaint.
Gast
Mirko!
It’s funny that I saw Fomapane in Moscow for USD 1.25 two weeks ago; they must be making a loss on them.
Best regards
Marcus
Gast
Hello Mirko,
The emulsion number is 010476-01, expiry date 05-2007.
In my view, there are three possible causes
1) Faulty film stock
2) Faulty development kit
3) Wetting agent
4) Processing error
I’ve ruled out reason 4, as I kept the rinsing times as short as possible this time. The first film with the fault was accidentally left in the final bath for four minutes instead of one. For the last film, I limited the intermediate rinse to 2 minutes (it was about 3 for all the others) and used a final fix of about 3 minutes (Ilford method). Then I rinsed for one minute in distilled water and Mirasol.
I consider errors 1 and 2 to be relatively unlikely for the time being. That is why I thought of 3, the wetting agent. I have done this successfully with 24 films, but it is possible that the Mirasol damages films due to ageing.
A word on the salad spinner: The film remains in the film spool/spiral of the developing tank. Only the water is spun out. The films then dry at room temperature in about an hour (now removed from the reel, of course). The film does not touch the salad spinner. I have dried about 200 films using this method so far (B&W, C41, Fomapan R100)
Regards
Andreas
MirkoBoeddecker
Marcus,
That’s exactly how it is.
And we Germans are supposed to foot the bill.
At Foma, they call that: marrrrr-keting.
Incidentally, in the US, products are sold at around 35% below the prices we’re being charged.
I don’t have any exact figures for Russia, but I’m sure it’s even more there.
Best regards,
Mirko
Stagirit
I’m not sure how relevant this still is for modern films, but I had the same problem with an old Agfa film (APX 25).
My old man then explained to me that it’s a form of grain known as ‘wrinkle grain’, which can occur particularly during temperature fluctuations in the developing process*.
Apparently, only films with a classic gelatine emulsion have this problem; I’ve never had this problem with other films.
*He used to apply the coating to his own plates back in the day.
fotohuisrovo
I don’t have any exact figures for Russia, but I’m sure the number will be even higher
Open a post office box in Moscow?????
Robert
Gast
Hi Andreas,
Try using a fixing bath, but only after a brief washing. Washing before the acid fixing bath is very important when using thiocyanate-based primary developers (I don’t think this is the case with the Foma kit), otherwise toxic compounds may form. You can also add a stabiliser to the primary developer, e.g. Labor Partner Geladur, although this may alter the primary development time. Alternatively, you could turn the fixer into a heat fixer (e.g. using Tetenal stabiliser or LP Geladur); the exposure time would then need to be roughly doubled. The sooner you stop the film, the better. Under no circumstances would I add a fixer to the Bleach bath. You can add a few millilitres of formalin (available from any chemist’s) to the wetting agent, though this stuff isn’t entirely non-toxic.
Regards, Abi
RomanJRohleder
Abi,
>You can also add a hardener to the original developer, e.g. Lab Partner >Geladur,
Others have already tried this and ended up ruining their films as well as wasting a lot of time and energy. All these hardeners require an acidic environment, which naturally conflicts with the proper functioning of the developers used today. Have a look on the Hattener forum; if I remember correctly, it was Dennis who wasted quite a few runs before he stopped believing the claim on the Geladur packet that it ‘can be added to the developer’.
Last June, I saw a film myself that exhibited the symptoms mentioned by Andreas, and I am convinced that the fault does not lie with the user.
Bye,
Roman
