Gast
Hello
So far, I’ve been developing my Adox Warmton PE paper in Agfa Sistan.
Does anyone have any experience with selenium toning?
What effect does it have on this paper?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Regards, Martin
Renate
Hello,
I tried developing Adox PE Warm-tone paper in selenium toner as a test. I used LP selenium toner, which I diluted to a ratio of 1:9. This is actually too concentrated for paper. I prepared the solution to enhance negatives, which, incidentally, worked well. (But even with the best will in the world, a ratio of more than 1:1 is simply not possible.) I also tested various papers in it at the same time. The ADOX PE papers (warm and cold) respond very well to selenium toner. The warm paper turned even browner, whilst the cold paper also took on a slight brownish tinge. I had developed both papers in LP Brom 1, which is considered a warm-tone developer. The Agfa Premium paper showed less reaction in the selenium toner. But even that turned slightly brown.
So far, however, I haven’t had the time to systematically test ADOX paper and selenium toner, so all I can say here is: it responds well to selenium toner and further testing is recommended.
Best regards,
Renate
Roman
So, if Adox Warmton is the same paper as Forte Polywarmton (I’m a bit lost in all this ADOX madness... ;) ) – then it reacts enthusiastically to selenium toners at first – initially the paper cools down significantly to a neutral black, but with longer toning a lovely chocolatey reddish-brown emerges; with a bit of experimentation regarding dilution and toning time, you can even achieve split toning (neutral grey highlights, brownish-black shadows).
Oh yes, regarding Sistan: that’s actually intended for archival stability – with selenium, however, this is only achieved if you tone the print completely (which, with PWT, goes hand in hand with a change in colour tone) – if archival stability is the only concern, Sistan is the better choice (or Goldtoner – but it’s expensive, and produces grey-blue image tones with PWT).
Roman
MirkoBoeddecker
Roman,
The "ADOX madness" is actually quite simple.
Classic Polywarmton is now called ADOX Polywarmton, because we can no longer continue using the Classic brand.
Classic Museum is now called ADOX Museum.
That’s all there is to it.
Everything else from ADOX is new.
Films: efke KB 25-50-100 are now called ADOX. The rest are new products.
Best regards,
Mirko
SamuliSchielke
I have often toned Adox = Forte Polywarmton with selenium. The developer has a significant influence on the result. If you develop the paper with a cold-tone or neutral-tone developer and then tone it thoroughly (for up to 10 minutes at a dilution of 1+30, using Amaloco Seleniton), you get beautiful blue-to-violet tones with a hint of purple. A similar, even slightly stronger effect can also be achieved with Fomatone. Adox Easyprint VC also turns distinctly bluish with Amaloco cold toner and a 1+30 selenium solution. Fomabrom and Fomaspeed, on the other hand, react only weakly to the selenium toner; you get a violet tone, but it is not as strong as with the other papers.
Best regards,
Samuli
SamuliSchielke
Oh, right, how do you get a grey-blue Polywarm tone with the gold toner? I only get red tones.
Gast
Hi Samuli,
Do you tone with sulphur beforehand? That’s actually the only way to get a red tint with gold toner. Otherwise, the rule is: the warmer the original print, the bluer the gold tone. And in my experience, Polywarmton doesn’t stand out from the rest of the warm-tone papers.
So: expose heavily, develop with a solution of low dilution and rather on the light side (in warm-tone developer – I’ve always wanted to try glycine), stop, fix, rinse, tone, rinse, dry, done.
Although gold toner really doesn’t produce a blue colour nearly as strongly as blue toner. First, the brown cast recedes from the development, the densities increase (as with selenium), then a blue shimmer emerges very slowly. To make it bluer than, say, cold-tone paper (Polykalt, for example) in cold-tone developer (Moersch Blue with Finischer Blue, for example), you really need to have developed it quite heavily in warm-tone developer and waited a considerable amount of time. In return, you get the fine grain and tonal range of a warm-tone paper.
Regards
Martin
Gast
Mirko,
I agree with Roman about the ADOX names – they’re all as alike as two peas in a pod. Perhaps you could give the papers names like Adobrom, Portradox or Vario Portradox, Variochlorobrom, just as they used to do in the ‘good old days’ – names like Leigrano, Brovira, Bromosa and Portriga Rapid.
Roland
SamuliSchielke
Hello Martin,
Either we’re doing something differently in a key respect, or the various toners on the market are very different. Do you use Tetenal, Moersch, or something else? I use Moersch MT6 without prior sulphur toning, and consistently get red tones, provided it is genuine warm-tone paper (Polywarmton or Fomatone) that has been reduced in a cold or neutral-black developer. The most beautiful results, leaning slightly towards sepia brown/gold, are achieved with Polywarmton in a neutral-warm developer.
That’s not a problem in itself, as I really like the red tones. I would assume it’s down to both the toner and the developer. When I get the chance, I’ll try out what Moersch MT6 does with prints developed in a properly warm developer.
Incidentally, I also find the ADOX brand names a bit confusing, though that’s for other reasons. The papers I use are called Forte in Holland (the photo shop is just round the corner) and ADOX in Germany (MUCH cheaper), and it’s sometimes a bit of a hassle to work out which is which. At least Foma is always called Foma...
Regards
Samuli
Roman
OK, right then – the MT6 from Moersch isn’t a ‘standard’ gold toner, but a Nelson-style gold toner, and those tend to produce rather warm tones (and are also mostly hard to come by, which is probably why Moersch has included it in their range).
The ‘standard’ gold toner from Moersch is the MT9; I personally use the one from Tetenal, and I believe Fotospeed has one too...
SamuliSchielke
Right then. So the only question left is whether it’s even worth looking for blue tones with the MT6, or whether it would be better to go for a different one straight away?
Gast
Well, Wolfgang sees it a bit differently to Roman, at least according to the instructions. That said, he does have examples in his gallery that are decidedly red. I reckon if you’re looking for blue, you’ll just have to develop it warm for a start.
By the way, I’ve only used Tetenal so far.
Best regards
Martin
Roman
Martin,
As I said, I work with Tetenal Gold Toner, not MT6 (and I have no practical experience of other Nelson variants either) – so I can only refer to what Tim Rudman says in his 'Toning Book':
"Unlike the direct gold toners above, Nelson’s Gold Toner is therefore actually a sepia ‘sulphide’ toner with added gold chloride and normally produces a range of brown colours, which, as the Photographer’s Formulary instructions state: ‘may vary from just a hint of warmth to rich sepia-browns. (...) The toner is useful in portrait photography, where it can be used to diminish the impact of cold tones.'"
However, the MT-6 sample images on Moersch’s website do indeed show both cool and warm examples, so there does appear to be a certain scope for variation.
