Baker dry presses

Arthur · 2005-06-28T09:47:07+00:00

Hallo! Ich habe schon ziemlich viel herumexperimentiert, um meine Barytprints glatt zu bekommen, leider bisher ohne Erfolg. :P Jetzt überlege ich mir, be...

Arthur

Hello! I’ve been experimenting quite a bit to get my baryta prints smooth, but unfortunately without success so far. :P Now I’m thinking of ordering a 30x40cm Bäcker drying press from FOTOIMPEX. Perhaps one or two of you here have a press like this and could tell me about your experiences? - I’ve been recommended several times now to leave the paper to dry overnight and then, if possible whilst it’s still slightly damp, put it in the drying press. Is this a recommended method and does it really work? - I’ve also read that a 30x40 cm press isn’t actually big enough for 30x40 cm paper; you’d need the next size up. Is that true? I’m really looking for a permanent solution to get smooth prints. I’m also willing to spend a bit of money on this. I don’t want to buy one on eBay, as you can never really be sure that there aren’t any chemical residues in the linen. However, I’d like to avoid buying an expensive piece of equipment and then not achieving the desired results with it... Thanks, Arthur

Gast

Hello Arthur, I’ve been using a 50 x 60 Bächer press for years, which I bought second-hand from an old master photographer (for 100 DM at the time). Although this press doesn’t have a thermostat, it still works wonderfully, and here’s how: - After printing, place baryta papers on a drying screen and leave them to dry overnight (do not place them directly next to a radiator or similar), so that they dry evenly. - The next day, heat the press for 5 minutes on setting three, then set it to setting one. Place the papers on the press and leave them there for between 1 and 3 minutes, depending on the paper. Done. You’ll end up with perfectly smooth papers. This method works and is the ideal drying method. However, as already mentioned, the press should be one size larger than your largest paper format. On the subject of chemicals and tension cloths: The tension cloths can be removed and washed, or you can order replacement cloths from Bächer. They’re still available even for my ancient press (which, by the way, is very attractive with its wooden handles – a real aesthetic delight). Incidentally, I haven’t washed my tension cloths since I bought the press (and still haven’t to this day), and the prints are still flawless, even after years. So buying one at auction on eBay, provided it isn’t too expensive, is no problem. The main thing is that the electrics are in good working order; everything else can be ordered ‘relatively’ cheaply as spare parts from Bächer. Best regards and good luck Lothar

Gast

Hello Arthur! Here are two methods I’ve used so far to get every sheet of baryta paper perfectly smooth: 1. The wet tape method (see also: http://www.artgrey.de/barytpapier_trocknen.pdf). In some cases, this doesn’t work; the edges sometimes warp, so I use the following method: 2. The fully rinsed prints are soaked in Sistan as per the instructions, then placed in a room that is as dust-free as possible (ideally on kitchen roll). After approx. 2 to 3 hours (the prints should no longer feel ‘sticky’ on the emulsion side), I place them between interleaving sheets (available in stationery shops, sometimes only to order; these are mainly used in museums to dry documents, etc., and must definitely be acid-free!!!, and can of course be reused time and again!) and weigh them down, e.g. first with a coated chipboard sheet, onto which I then place one or two canisters half-filled with water (these are 25-litre canisters in which distilled water is sold, which I use to prepare the developers). After two days, rearrange the stack if necessary, leave to dry for another two days, then press again if required, but without the spacer boxes – just the now-dried prints on top of one another, with archival interleaving paper at the very top and bottom to protect against mechanical damage. The prints remain perfectly flat and no longer warp. And I save myself the expense of buying a drying press (which, incidentally, I would never buy second-hand – given the chemical residues that might be in the cloth, which would then end up in my prints...). Best regards! Johannes

Arthur

Lothar, Thanks, I’d love to do it the way you describe. B) However, it does give me pause that the 30x40 press isn’t really suitable for 30x40 paper, and the 50x60 press is too expensive for me... Perhaps I’ll have a look for a second-hand, larger one after all, if replacement belts are still available even for older models. I check eBay every now and then, but it seems to me that most of the presses on offer there are cheaper models of not-so-great quality; books are rather rare, and often you have to collect the press yourself, which is a bit difficult for me as I live in Austria. Johannes, Thanks for the link; I’ve already heard of the wet tape method and I’ll probably give it a go now, even though I’m a bit reluctant to trim the paper. And overall, it’s naturally a lot more labour-intensive than a press. But I can certainly see it working for larger formats. I’m currently using the method you described with cardboard, but for some reason it’s not working out quite as it should for me... I suspect that the paper doesn’t dry completely between the cardboard sheets, even if I leave it there for several days. When I take it out, it’s nice and smooth, but after a few minutes it starts to curl up again. :P Thanks for the info anyway!!!

Gast

Hi Arthur, I don’t quite understand the bit about the creases after taking the paper out of the gusset boxes. It may be because, during the processing, e.g. when rinsing and soaking, you aren’t handling the paper carefully enough by holding it at one corner, but instead by the entire side edge; the paper then warps and doesn’t return to its original shape when drying, and it inevitably forms waves at the stretched areas. In my opinion, a great deal depends on how the prints are handled whilst wet, including during soaking – a soaking tub in which the prints are essentially standing is better than soaking in a basin, where the prints have to be moved back and forth more often; this increases the risk of them warping. If your dried prints show waves and unevenness, particularly at the corners, then that could be the cause (though this is difficult to rectify even with a drying press!). I have also found that the final Sistan bath, in addition to its preservative effect, prevents excessive warping. After taking them out of the slotted boxes, my prints show a slight tendency to curl along the shorter side after a few minutes, but if I place the entire stack of prints again between chipboard sheets with protective paper on top and bottom and weigh it down properly (in my case, that’s a total of about 20 kg), it’s fine. Regarding dry pressing: It’s true, of course, that there are substitute cloths (I hadn’t thought of that!). But: Often the surface changes, and personally I much prefer the look of air-dried prints; moreover, in my experience the colour tone can also change – perhaps this is also related to the drying temperature!? With warm regards from Austria! Johannes

Urnes

Hi Artur, I had the same problem after drying. They were smooth at first, then became wavy. However, I’d also put the prints in the press beforehand (though it’s only a small 30x40). I then left the prints under flat weights for two or three days. Everything was nice and flat; the prints went into the box for storage and were wavy the next morning. I strongly suspect that the prints simply dried out completely in the cellar and the residual moisture was only drawn out whilst they were stored in the box. Regards, Sven.

Gast

Just a silly theory on the subject of warping: When pressed – and to some extent when using interleaving paper – the prints become drier than the surrounding air. Afterwards, they absorb a little moisture again. Even for me, the prints start to bend again over time, even if they’ve stopped warping. Best regards Martin

Gast

Drying baryta paper is a science in itself; when opting for flat-bed drying, the key factors to consider, alongside ensuring the paper is securely fixed, are the drying time and temperature. Under no circumstances must the paper become too dry, as it will otherwise absorb moisture from the environment and start to curl. My experience with the Büschner drying press. A very solidly built product; I use it for high-gloss drying with a chrome sheet (metal). In the 30x40 press, I dry 30x40 prints. For matt or natural finishes, I prefer the wet adhesive tape method. When it comes to baryta drying, there is no ultimate solution, only personal experience, a lot of secrecy and, unfortunately, envy too. Some dry on a screen and use a press; others pre-dry on a screen and finish drying between sheets of tissue paper; there are several variations of the wet adhesive tape method; and then there is drying on a line followed by flat pressing. All nonsense? Try them all? I would be cautious with anything where the print comes into contact with other materials. The word ‘worry-free’ is no guarantee of the print’s archival safety. If archival safety isn’t an issue, you can save yourself the trouble of baryta processing and simply use a good PE paper.

heinrich

Hello, I can only agree with Mr/Ms Trocknen; there are (far) too many methods for getting baryta paper to lie flat. None of them work for everyone, nor are they suitable for every situation. Unless you happen to own a professional darkroom where the process has been established for generations, the only option is trial and error. After a lot of frustration, I’ve settled on the following method; the results aren’t always 100%, but I’m happy with the 80% I’ve achieved: - Remove excess water from the paper, ideally with a clean, dust-free sponge (no rubber squeegees or windscreen wipers – they leave ugly black streaks) - Place the paper, coated side down, on a drying rack and let it dry very slowly; never near a radiator, otherwise the paper will curl up badly If you don’t have a drying rack or have too many prints, you can also lay the paper face down on the floor (hopefully a clean one, not carpet) for 1–2 hours as soon as the paper starts to curl and the gelatin is no longer sticky, place the paper with the coated side down on newspaper, cover with another sheet of newspaper and leave the whole thing to dry thoroughly overnight. Once dry (takes a good 12 to 24 hours), the paper will be slightly wavy. Then press the paper, with the newspaper sheets, between two clamping boards. Either place 1–2 full buckets of water on top of the clamping boards or clamp them together using screw clamps. If everything goes smoothly, you’ll have wonderfully flat prints the next day. However, these prints never stay permanently flat for me. Changes in humidity cause the paper to warp slightly over time. The coated side usually lies within the warp; I assume that the gelatin expands less than the paper substrate due to the absorbed humidity. The only solution is to press them again. The prints only remain permanently flat if I mount them onto card. If the paper dries too quickly (e.g. in winter due to the dry air from the heating), the whole process no longer works satisfactorily. After drying, the paper develops huge waves that cannot be controlled no matter how much pressing is done; small waves usually remain at the edges. Sometimes re-wetting and re-drying helps, but unfortunately not always. Conclusion Baryta is for masochists, but as long as there are fans of VFL Bochum, there will also be fans of baryta paper. Regards Heinrich

Gast

Hi Heinrich, Yeah, yeah, PE is better. That’s what I’m advocating too, and I’m starting (silly me) with the high-end print shop. And there they were again, my three problems: drying, curling, and warping. However, the gelatine seems to make the problem considerably worse. Vario Classic or, even worse, POP dance the rumba compared to Arches Platin. That works relatively well: dry on a glass plate until it falls off, place in a blotting paper book and press, then mount very quickly. But it’s also the only watercolour paper (that I’ve had in my hands) that still remembers its shape after soaking. Even the other Arches 300s are fussy. However, experience teaches us one thing: this stupid stuff remembers every movement that distorts it whilst wet (even lifting it up by the middle of the edge is enough). Regards Martin

heinrich

Hi Max ....no, I’m a self-confessed VFL fan; I only use PE when I need to get things done quickly, so I can then print the really nice ones on baryta paper again..... It’s strange, really – when I compare them side by side, I always prefer my baryta prints to the same photo on PE; perhaps it’s because I subconsciously work less carefully with PE.......or maybe it’s all just my imagination... You just shouldn’t turn it into a dogma. It’s a hobby, so everyone’s free to indulge their own quirks. Best regards, Heinrich

mau

No, it’s not just my imagination; baryta paper really is that much better. However, you can also achieve excellent results with PE paper. The method using a screen (a fly screen) is also quite reliable if you press it down firmly. However, I would advise against using newspaper in particular, or indeed any paper whose composition is unknown. There are better options available for this purpose. Either museum-quality matboard, the Ilford Galerie light frame, or PAT-tested material.

Gast

Hello, My method for smoothing even the thickest, cardboard-like papers: After wetting the paper, hang it on a very cheap plastic clothes peg to dry overnight. The paper usually curls up. For ironing, I use a very old 50x60 Büscher dry press (pre-war model!, weighing at least 40kg) Before inserting the paper, I hold the back of each print briefly over a kettle; this allows them to absorb a little moisture again, making them easier to smooth out. They are then placed in the drying press, heated to 60 degrees, for about 10 minutes, with the prints sandwiched between two sheets of museum-grade mat board. This has always worked for me and produces a sufficiently glossy finish. Best regards Dony

Gast

@mau, Believe it or not. I still reckon that -you simply can’t achieve an identical surface finish or gloss with PE and baryta paper. -even minor changes to the formula and different batches of emulsion can make a world of difference. -the ‘white impression’ between baryta and PE is already different due to the top layer and the different base material. -the process has to be different anyway (starts with the developer being used up more quickly, continues with the rinsing and the heat treatment during pressing) -The average lifespan of a print using today’s PEs is 96% dependent on how it is treated. For example, PE does not suffer from the same kind of gelatine cracking as traditional paper. The bottom line is that the result will always be different. Whether it’s “better” is either a matter of taste or an outdated notion. Regards Martin To each their own, best done if they can.

MirkoBoeddecker

Hi everyone, Unfortunately, we have a quick warning for you: Bäcker is currently experiencing delivery delays of around six months. So if you want a press under the Christmas tree this year, you should order now! We’d be happy to hold your order in stock and dispatch it once your Christmas bonus has come through, but we need to know now! Best regards, Mirko

chriwurz

Hi Mirko, Have I read that right: 6 MONTHS, not weeks? Will that even work in time for Christmas? Oh well, never mind – I’ll be ordering a Bäcker press from you soon anyway. One more question: can I also dry 30x40 prints using the 32x42 press? There seem to be differing opinions on this in the forum... My budget is tight, so the answer I’m hoping for to my question would simply be: yes! – provided that drying 30x40 prints on the wheels is actually possible without any loss of quality. Many thanks in advance for your reply and to anyone else who might have any helpful suggestions on this! Christian

MirkoBoeddecker

Hi Christian, That’s right, I forgot to post the full text from the newsletter on the forum. So Böscher has given his word that they’ll be churning out a few presses in November. So we can place our orders now and shout ‘November! November!’ in the hope that they’ll get round to us. The 30x40 presses are big enough for 30x40 prints, but physics is physics, and there’s heat loss towards the edges, so I’d also prefer to dry my 30x40 prints on a 50x60 press.... Best regards, Mirko

oliverdienst

Hi Arthur, I’ve been experimenting a bit over the last few days. Here you can see one of the results (ADOX FC 30x40): ADOX 30x40 FB . This is the process I followed: - After rinsing, I let the print ‘air-dry’ on a linen cloth - Pre-dried for approx. 1 hour on a drying rack (the emulsion side no longer ‘sticks’) - Placed in this ‘drying book’ (blotting paper) for approx. 1 day, with the emulsion side facing the glassine paper - Placed in a warm drying press at 30°C for approx. 15 mins - Left in the ‘drying book’ for approx. 3 days I placed a wooden board on top of the 'drying book', with granite slabs on top of that. I am quite satisfied with the result for now.