Gast
Hello,
I don’t really want to add to the fuss, but rumour has it :unsure: that there are some really bad things going on in the market again: there could soon be supply issues with all types of 120 roll film.
Is Uncle Schröer :blink: just trying to encourage people to stock up on his R3???
Is the root of the problem the few roll film manufacturers currently being buffeted by turbulence :unsure: ???
Are there issues with any of the suppliers :huh: of backing paper, the base material, or the rolls ???
Does anyone know any more vague details :( ???
Thanks for any helpful information, and happy shooting anyway!
Ralph
Gast
Ralph,
I think I mentioned this somewhere before.
The problem at the moment is that the last independent manufacturer of protective paper is ceasing production.
We’ve stocked up for our ADOX range for the time being and are currently looking for alternatives.
Of course, if you don’t want to get too involved in the production process or have fallen out with almost everyone (as some competitors have), then at first glance the problem seems unsolvable.
In any case, we’re tinkering with it for now and are sure to find a solution.
In the worst-case scenario, it will be a bit trickier to make out the numbers in the red window.
Best regards,
Mirko
MirkoBoeddecker
I forgot to log in...
RomanJRohleder
Mirko,
shall we perhaps collect the backing paper instead of chucking it in the bin after developing? ;-)
While we’re on the subject – what is the point, what is the purpose of the hole in the backing paper of Foma roll films, about 1 to 2 cm behind the end of the film and approximately 0.5 cm in diameter?
It can be found on both Fomapan from the 1960s or 1970s and current Fomapan 100/120, and it has caused me quite a bit of frustration.
Gast
Does that mean you spend months fiddling about with the plastic containers,
but there’s no black paper for the roll?
I find the comparison with the GDR era (viewed from a distance)
quite apt...
Regards, Stephan
MirkoBoeddecker
Please don’t lump everything together.
1) ADOX is not Foma
2) It says above that we’ve stocked up on enough protective paper for our films
3) In the long term, we’ll have to look for alternatives
4) It’s not our fault that production has been discontinued!! Be glad that we’re taking care of things and not, like some others, just shrugging our shoulders and spouting the usual “that’s the end of the matter” line.
@ Roman, I’ve been using Foma roll films myself since 1990 – it must be about 4,000 rolls by now – and I’ve never once had an exposure caused by a hole in the backing paper. What exactly is bothering you about it? I’ll have a look and ask around.
Collecting old protective paper isn’t such a bad idea. As things stand at the moment, the cost of the backing paper will soon exceed that of the film stock, or we could have it manufactured in China, but then everything is relatively cheap and translucent.
You can reuse backing paper about 10 times if you’re careful.
It might be worth sending it in and getting a discount on new films in return.
But it would have to be around 100–1,000 rolls at a time because of the transport costs.
But as I said, that’s all just pie in the sky.
I actually just wanted to give a sensible answer to the question of what underlying issues currently exist with the production of roll films...
Mirko
Gast
Hi Mirko,
As I rewind the reels in the bag, the paper usually gets a bit crumpled, but seriously, if you can use the reels, just let me know.
Best regards
Martin
MirkoBoeddecker
Reels are no problem to manufacture.
The problem is the protective paper.
But as I said – we don’t have a problem at the moment.
I was simply trying to explain why others might claim that things are looking so bleak for roll films at the moment.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
What's so difficult about producing printed paper that's completely black on one side?
StefanHeymann
Sorry, I’d forgotten to log in...
Best regards, Stefan
MirkoBoeddecker
Unfortunately, there are quite a few.
There must be no chemical reaction with the film; it must be opaque to a certain degree (red window); it must be printed over a length of 150 cm (the diameter of the printing cylinder is the limiting factor here); it must be cut to exact specifications (try telling your local printer about cutting accuracy to a hundredth of a millimetre); etc....
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hello,
A few points:
1) Wephota has a red protective sheet with a black reverse side in which the photographic paper is packaged; this could also work for film.
2) Why does the paper need to be cut to an accuracy of 1/100 mm?
I generally doubt that the first 120 roll films from 1901 had paper cut to such precision.
3) In my opinion, Svema, for example, uses a slightly different, thicker backing paper; unless I am terribly mistaken, it should be possible to get hold of this protective paper if necessary.
Roland
Gast
Hi Mircopex,
About the reels.
I’ve already collected quite a few.
Can’t you just hand them in and get a free film for 100 of them? ;-)
RomanJRohleder
Mirko,
"@ Roman, I’ve been using Foma roll films myself since 1990 – I must have used about 4,000 rolls by now – and I’ve never once had an exposure caused by a hole in the backing paper."
I’m not worried about exposure – at most, it might happen with older folding cameras that have faded red windows.
But you know which hole I’m talking about, don’t you?
“What exactly bothers you about it? I’ll have a look and ask around.”
Three points:
- The hole effectively prevents me from using Foma films with the daylight box I’d like to use from time to time – the Rondinax 60. Here, the film is loaded into a chamber, the lid is put on, the backing paper is pulled outwards over an edge, and the film is thus reeled onto a second camera. The film chamber is then sealed, the lid opened, the film attached to a pull cord... etc.
Here are the instructions:
http://grosskabinett.de/photo/Labor/entw/Rondinax60/
Now the Foma backing paper has a hole and a slight crease running across it – that’s enough for it to catch on the edge when pulled out and tear the film in daylight... which is not at all good for the latent image. *gnarr.
In the wake of the Germany-wide Rondinax revival, this is certainly a blemish on Foma’s record. ;-) But it’s also a way to boost sales.
- In the case of the ancient film mentioned, the colorant in the backing paper has reacted with the emulsion and produced a significant base fog. Only at the spot of the hole... the fog is less pronounced – consistently across several rolls.
- And thirdly, the real and actual reason – every manufacturer I know, from the Far East to the Near West, manages without holes, and it simply gnaws at me not to know why Foma has consistently done this for 30 to 50 years. :-)
Well, the Czechs have often displayed their own peculiarities... such as non-light-tight photo paper boxes (those old white ones with the cloud pattern).
“Collecting old protective paper isn’t such a bad idea.”
Hey! That doesn’t count, that was a joke!
“As things stand at the moment, the cost of the protective paper will soon exceed that of the film stock, or we could have it manufactured in China, but then everything would be relatively cheap and light-permeable.”
Even “without” adhesive on the adhesive tabs, as with the J&C Pro100?
(Are those actually identical to your Classic Eco 100?)
If it’s urgent – perhaps give Munich a ring – if the Agfa Photo branch there supplies black-and-white cassettes and canisters to the Düren branch, they might also part with a few metres of backing paper, and they know their stuff.
I’ll be selling my reels on eBay in future; it seems to be a market with a future.
Gast
I’ll have to look for the hole on my next roll of Forma; as I usually throw the outer wrappers away straight away, I haven’t noticed it yet.
By the way, Fuji roll films also have a hole in the outer wrapper – but at the start, so you can hook it onto the ‘T’ in the Fuji reels; it’s a brilliant system!
CPD
Hi Mirko,
Isn’t there a chance we could seize the opportunity here and make some 220 film? This film has huge advantages, for example in terms of flatness, as a Zeiss study shows.
You only need paper for the leader and tail; when travelling – I’m usually on the go with a rucksack – any saving in volume and weight is an advantage. Plus, you can just get on with snapping away.
Cameras manufactured before a certain date can’t be used due to a lack of switching capability; it’s also a bit of a shame for Hasselblad owners without a 220 magazine.
The folks at Gigabit want to create a ‘320’ roll film – couldn’t you tag along with them?
Just a thought!
Regards, CP
Gast
Reels aren’t difficult to make.
The problem is [...]
Best regards,
Mirko
The yellow giant is recycling!!!
It’s quite funny, actually – I’ve just got a Kodak 320TXP 120 reel in for development: right at the top of the reel, in big, bold letters, it says ‘Fujifilm Easy Loading’ :(
I’d really rather not open it and develop it...
Regards,
Ole
Gast
Take a deep breath and think about it!
So:
What is a roll film wound onto? The empty reel from the last film that was in the camera – and what if there was a Fuji in there before...?
Incidentally, the Fuji reels are particularly delicate (because of the small ‘T’ in the slot, which helps the tab hold better) – so recycling is definitely a good idea... :(
Roman
