camerafreak
But first, the good news:
a very heavyweight paper (which remains very robust even when wet – just look at Nova Monochrome), stays pure white even when heat-dried; the image tones tend to be on the cool side, but the prints have a lovely glow. A paper offering excellent value for money that holds its own against my previous favourite, the Agfa MCC.
Now for the bad news: the packaging of the 30x40 version must be some sort of bad joke. The cardboard sleeve isn’t resealable. And if you don’t happen to have any empty, proper [tm] paper boxes to hand, that can lead to a sudden rush of adrenaline combined with violent fantasies :-)
MirkoBoeddecker
Michael,
It was new to us too that the flaps are glued.
It is possible, in a way, to open the envelope so that it can be resealed afterwards, but I can see your point.
We’ll try to do something about it.
Unfortunately, packaging is a crucial factor in pricing. Better packaging costs several euros more per box.
We have to find a balance somewhere.
Best regards,
Mirko
heinrich
Mirko,
While you’re thinking about better packaging, both the boxes and the black PE bags for your own brand could be better sized. The 24x30 box is definitely too small and the bag is far too wide. The latter forces you to fold the bag not only along the short side when sealing it, but to fold the long side in as well. This ‘double fold’ puts a huge strain on the corners of the PE bag. If you then squeeze the whole thing into the far too tight box, small holes develop over time. Light can then get in, and you end up with unsightly black corners on the photographic paper.
Would a few extra millimetres of cardboard really be that much more expensive?
Regards
Heinrich
camerafreak
Mirko,
Of course it’s possible *somehow*, but not without a huge amount of effort. The tabs are stuck on so stubbornly that you’d probably need to use superheated steam in a lab to get them off :-(
It would be nice if you could comment on the packaging issue in the catalogue, as you did with the RA4-Ostware, where you also mention that it’s best to keep a few empty boxes to hand...
Another suggestion: surely it must be within your means to offer empty boxes for sale. I don’t know about others, but I’m constantly in need of empty boxes, especially since I’ve switched to roll-fed materials for some items. So I’d definitely be willing to pay something for empty boxes.
Wouldn’t that be an option for your product range?
Regards,
Michael
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Michael,
We mainly stock blank cardboards in 24x30 cm packs of 50 or 100 sheets.
The problem with the blank cardboards is that they cannot be stacked inside one another, which means that on top of the high production cost (from €2 upwards – bookbinding work that has to be done by hand), there are also huge shipping costs.
That’s why we’ve only ever sold them ‘under the counter’ in the shop and haven’t placed any further orders with the bookbinder.
However, we did send them out along with something heavy that we make money on :(
Vario Classic: We’ve sourced other paper from this production facility in the past. That wasn’t glued, but had an adhesive strip attached.
The issue only came to light when this post was published, as our own lab technician has a sufficient supply of Doran DUKASAFES and I share this infrastructure – so I haven’t personally unpacked any paper larger than 24x30 myself.
But we will change this as soon as possible.
Best regards,
Mirko
PS: I managed it with a knife. The flap does suffer quite a bit, but for one or two packs in the meantime, it’ll do...
Gast
As for boxes for everyday use: guys, just order a pack of Kodak Polymax in your preferred paper size as well – the paper is decent, not too expensive, and best of all: the boxes are sturdy and quite a bit bigger than the paper size, so they’re ideal as a makeshift paper safe!
RomanJRohleder
Roman,
Good point – the Brazilian RC paper comes in really sturdy cardboard packaging. The catch is that you still have to get the box empty first. ;-)
And Michael’s problem was with the larger sizes, which are supplied in packs of 25 sheets – I reckon the sizes up to 24x30 come in ‘standard’ stacked cardboard boxes, as they’re advertised in the catalogue as packs of 50 or 100.
MirkoBoeddecker
That's right – for sizes up to 24x30, we use standard cardboard boxes; for sizes 30x40 and above, we use envelopes for cost reasons (the boxes would cost almost €5).
We're trying to sort out the issue with the flap and the corners.
Mirko
Gast
Hi Mirco,
The problem arose just when you delivered the packs of 25 (30 x 40) with the envelopes. Hasn’t any other manufacturer thought of that yet?!
But there’s no need to go out of your way,
there are plenty of other fish in the sea...
Best wishes, Stephan
MatthiasStark
Hello,
Well, I find these flimsy envelopes anything but exciting either. When there’s only a little paper left inside, you really have to be careful not to crease the packet. What’s more, the folded-over end is so flimsy that it opens very easily, which isn’t exactly ideal.
The strange thing is that there are plenty of other manufacturers who have nice, sturdy boxes or packets and are hardly any more expensive?! How on earth do they do it?
Strangely enough, the black bags the paper is wrapped in are the sturdiest and thickest I’ve ever seen – that’s a bit odd. It’s as if two worlds are colliding here.
Well, the paper is inexpensive and good, and it hasn’t and won’t stop me from continuing to buy it, but I would certainly welcome an ‘upgrade’ with some ‘manageable’ packaging.
Regards,
Matthias
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Matthias,
As far as I know, no other manufacturer offers 25-sheet packs at this price.
A few years ago, we tried offering only 50-sheet boxes, but that meant half our customers (those who live from hand to mouth) stopped buying the paper altogether.
We can’t stock two different items (10 sheets and 50 sheets). It’s a huge mess and the one thing you need is always the one thing that’s not in stock.
A 30x40 cardboard box costs us around €4 to produce, an envelope 25–40 cents.
So the price would have to go up by €3.60 per pack...
Is there really any interest in this?
Best regards,
Mirko
MatthiasStark
Hi Mirko,
There’s someone who sells 25-sheet packs more cheaply than you do and uses much sturdier boxes, and as I’ve already mentioned, the competition is usually at least a few euros more expensive.
In my opinion, the 25-pack is just right. They don’t need to be thick, bulky boxes. It would be enough if you simply made the current envelopes from slightly thicker cardboard rather than this ‘flimsy tissue-paper-like cardboard’.
Incidentally, there’s another benefit to the envelopes being a bit sturdier. You can still use them for something even when they’re empty. So a small price increase would be acceptable to me.
I know, of course, that in these ‘stinginess is cool’ times, most people would cry foul, so I suppose we’ll all just have to keep struggling with these envelopes.
Regards,
Matthias
MatthiasStark
That reminds me of something.
Isn’t it a bit of a paradox that loads of people would apparently be willing to buy empty boxes just to repackage the paper that’s delivered in inadequate boxes????
Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to make proper boxes in the first place!?
Best regards,
Matthias
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello Matthias,
Regarding the empty boxes:
We do have some in stock, but they’ve been sitting there like a lump of lead for three years :(
There’s certainly ‘demand’ for them, but when we mention the price, everyone falls over themselves and bites the dust.
Unfortunately, there’s a widespread assumption that these boxes are free.
The fact is that they cannot be manufactured industrially and so have to be made by hand using bookbinding techniques.
However, I have understood your point perfectly.
Box = added value.
We’re currently looking into what’s possible. It might work out with boxes if we pre-finance and stock large production runs. Unfortunately, the money would be tied up for the time being, and we’d be able to stock fewer goods overall.....
In any case, the envelopes won’t stay as they are. At the very least, the flaps will be lengthened, and we’re looking into whether two pieces of cardboard can be included in the packaging.
My comments here and above should not be taken to mean that we do not want to take your suggestions on board. I just wanted to make it clear to as many customers as possible that these boxes are unfortunately very expensive and therefore cannot be repackaged ‘just like that’.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
I’ve got a solution:
Companies that offer printing services for business presentations and the like often process
transparencies and speciality paper in attractive boxes in standard sizes.
The shop just round the corner had some of these boxes left over.
Just have a go and ask – they’re just like photo boxes, though usually a bit taller or larger.
Best wishes, Stephan
