CarstenM
Hello,
Are there any data sheets or processing times available yet for these "new" ADOX CHM films? I haven’t found anything so far.
Or can I at least use the Ilford data sheets for the CHM films, as Ferdinand suggested in another post? :rolleyes:
Best regards
Carsten
MirkoBoeddecker
The development times are the same as those for the FP4 and HP5.
Other technical parameters can also be adopted exactly as they are.
Best regards,
Mirko
CarstenM
Thanks, Mirko,
That really does sound like re-labelled Ilford film. Just like Tura <-> Agfa APX.
Is that right? :rolleyes:
Best regards
Carsten
MirkoBoeddecker
Carsten,
Unfortunately, I can’t answer that question for you – for legal reasons.
However, we’ve never made a big secret of who manufactures what for us.
‘Relabelled’ is definitely the wrong word, though.
As far as CHM films are concerned, for example, only the raw material on large rolls comes from England.
All further processing is carried out on our behalf. This also accounts for the majority of the productive value added.
The highlight of this product line is undoubtedly the roll film containers, which Ilford does not offer.
These are also manufactured exclusively for us.
Best regards,
Mirko
CarstenM
Mirko,
I suppose the legal reasons are only to be expected.
It only occurred to me afterwards that the word ‘relabelled’ was the wrong term.
Be that as it may... ultimately, you’ve answered my questions.
I think these containers are brilliant too. But somehow I can’t imagine that there’s never been anything like this before.
As I read here recently, the containers won’t be available until March. I’d think it would be quite good to have a little note about the availability of the containers here in the forum.
Regards
Carsten
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Carsten,
I wrote this reply straight after I’d replied to Ferdinand in the other thread – hence the somewhat blunt tone.
Roll film containers: It’s an old hat. It’s just that no one has implemented it on a large scale yet and actually had hundreds of thousands of these containers manufactured. Maco presented the R3 at Kina in very attractive screw-top boxes. Unfortunately, however, these are so expensive that they are only viable for a film costing €5 and – as Maco put it – this is only a limited-time offer for the first batches.
We have managed to bring the cost of these containers down to roughly the price of a cardboard box, and are therefore able to offer all ADOX roll films in containers at no extra cost.
Films sealed only in aluminium foil should be available in 3–4 weeks.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
The problem isn’t the word itself, but the reality of the situation. And the fact is that this product policy – whatever you call it – gives consumers the false impression of a range of products that, in reality, doesn’t exist. A photographer who is not satisfied with HP5 (though I can’t imagine that, it’s just an example) will notice little difference if they switch to ADOX CHM400 or Maco 400UP. Similarly, anyone who makes the mistake of switching to ADOX CHM today (out of fear of Ilford’s definitive demise) will face a problem. The negative side effects of relabelling (or whatever else you call it) for the consumer are also well-known and recognised in other sectors (e.g. with rechargeable batteries). They are not made any better by the fact that a traditional name in black-and-white photography is being revived here.
MirkoBoeddecker
Ferdinand,
Many people see things differently these days.
Firstly, ADOX is not simply a re-labelled film, and secondly, in today’s global economy, the focus has long been on sales markets rather than production facilities.
Admittedly, German industry is lagging behind somewhat in this respect, but on the whole, it is sufficient demand that drives supply, not a factory that has decided to start producing something on a whim.
The actual coating of the raw material accounts for only about 30% of the productive value added in film manufacturing.
According to my information, Ilford will run out of backing paper for roll films in about four weeks. I don’t know what they’ll do then.
In any case, we ordered backing paper for our ADOX films in good time before the company ceased production, and we’re currently working on an alternative.
It is a perfectly conceivable scenario that Ilford itself will eventually cease production of 120 roll films. If, by then, sufficient demand has shifted to us, we can go and order complete factory runs from Ilford and then have them cut and packaged there into 120 format where this is still possible.
This is just an example – Ilford will certainly find a solution to the roll film problem, but at the moment we can supply and Ilford cannot.
This market is evolving from a mass market into a niche market. Small, flexible companies will offer the widest range of products in future, whilst companies that were formerly designed for a mass market will focus on what still generates mass-market-style turnover.
What’s more, the plastic container adds extra value and the price of the film is also attractive.
So there are plenty of reasons to buy a CHM.
Best regards,
Mirko
MKL
Hi Mirko,
That all sounds quite interesting.
Did I miss it, or have you not yet mentioned exactly when the films will be delivered by container? I’d be quite interested to know.
Best regards,
Michael
MirkoBoeddecker
It’s not entirely clear yet.
The manufacturer is still working on the injection mould.
Anyone who orders films without containers now – but would like them – will receive the required number of containers free of charge with their next order.
Please mention this when placing your order.
Best regards,
Mirko
cfb_de
Hello Mirko,
The manufacturer is still working on the injection mould.
Something like that I’m just missing that crucial bit of information at the moment.
With a single demoulding direction, straightforward geometry, no sliders and just two gate locations, a mould like this with three to four cavities should be ready within three days. On top of that, there’d be the initial sampling of the parts (2x postage*) + your time in the shop), and then production could start. You can also sample on Saturday. That makes six days from tool design. Production approval takes place on Saturday or Sunday, and we’ll get started the following Monday.
You should really put some pressure on your supplier; he’s taking the mick out of you at the moment.
Or does the world outside my little corner look so different? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised by the wave of bankruptcies in the manufacturing sector.
Best regards,
Franz
*): Regarding process assurance on your end: two deliveries of initial sample parts. Otherwise, you won’t be able to tell whether the system is running stably. Furthermore, you should carry out a production run check every now and then, as suppliers tend to reduce cooling times after the initial samples, which then causes dimensional accuracy to go down the drain.
rherz
Hi Franz,
First of all – the world outside your moulding company looks a bit different. Our toolmakers are always quite happy not to have to work for the car guys for a change (i.e. with ‘normal’ people) :unsure:
But the mould isn’t quite that simple.
The container has a snap-fit geometry for the lid, which requires forced demoulding (undercut), and the opposite side – the actual can – is likely held in the mould halves, with a ring ejector near the snap-fit geometry – at least that’s how I’d approach it. The whole thing involves at least four mould cavities – possibly with a hot runner as well, in which case it needs to be balanced so that the flow rates are even, polishing on the internal parts to make it slide out more easily, and so on and so forth. Not three days – at least not in real life.
But Mirko’s idea is really good – it’s actually surprising that no one has done this yet, back when the industry was doing better.
Best regards
Robert
Gast
Production is now underway.
The delivery time is now the uncertain factor.
Unfortunately, we were unable to achieve this in Germany at this price.
So I’m still expecting it to take at least three weeks.
Mirko
Gast
But Mirko’s idea is really good – it’s actually surprising that no one had thought of it before, when the industry was doing even better.
Robert,
other manufacturers had the same idea.
In the past, practically all brands came in metal or plastic tins; Agfa was ‘only’ the first to stop using them about 30 years ago.
Roman
Gast
Blimey. There’s something missing. Namely:
“...‘only’ stopped using that stuff”... as the density of the backing paper increased and plastic packaging became the norm.
You can find old metal tubes on eBay or at flea markets – they’re not that rare.
Last year, Fuji had a plastic box for five rolls of film in their range; these were sold as standard with the packs of five, at no extra cost.
MirkoBoeddecker
I think Robert – clearly an expert in plastic injection moulding – didn’t mean the idea of a roll film container per se – that would really be taking the credit too far – but rather the idea of moulding the lid at the same time, thereby enabling the entire product to be manufactured using a single mould in a single production run.
That is why we were able to produce it so cost-effectively that the price of the cardboard box is the same as the price of the attractive container.
The conventional method with a separate lid would have incurred around 50% in additional costs and was briefly considered by us but later rejected.
Best regards,
Mirko
MirkoBoeddecker
Et voilà! The containers are ready.
Now they just need to float over here.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
One more question: are ADOX KB films actually available ‘just’ shrink-wrapped in aluminium foil (like Ilford films, for example)? I really don’t need the plastic tins (they just take up space and nobody’s going to buy them off me on eBay anyway...)....
Cheers
MirkoBoeddecker
The containers have arrived!
Mirko
roseblood11
Hello,
What actually happened to the CHMs? I used to enjoy using them a few years ago. Now, after what feels like a long break from photography for me, it seems they’re no longer available? Unfortunately, I can’t find any information about them myself.
Kind regards, Immo
PS: The forum search really does refuse to search for three-letter words. That’s rather silly, as many film titles are that short. They really ought to change that...
