Forte situation

ongarine · 2004-10-19T13:07:55+00:00

Dear Mirko, many rumors about Forte production......and also many guess for the future of Forte. Which is the real situation? Are they still producing film...

ongarine

Dear Mirko, There are many rumours about Forte’s production... and also much speculation about the future of Forte. What is the actual situation? Are they still producing film and paper? If not, will this be permanent or for a limited period? As I use paper and film, I would like to know whether it will be possible to obtain Forte supplies in the near future. Do you have any alternatives for paper or film? That’s all Thanks Daniele

MirkoBoeddecker

Hi Daniele, With Forte, it’s much the same as with Ilford: it’s really impossible to say. The people who were in charge before are no longer there, and the insolvency protection shields them from their creditors but still doesn’t bring in any fresh cash. So at this stage, there’s no reason to give up on either of these companies but I certainly can’t promise you that they’ll be producing film again. All I can tell you is what might happen. If the administrator decides to continue production, and if they can raise some capital from somewhere, and if their customers (people like you) are willing to finally pay just a little bit more for the paper so that at least the production costs are covered (B/W paper hasn’t gone up in price since 1985 if you factor out inflation), then they could be coating again in about three months. Much the same applies to Ilford, only on a much larger scale. Forte needs a few hundred thousand euros; Ilford needs 80 million. Both companies have been undercutting each other on the market over the last three years to secure sales from one major customer in California. As a result, both went into liquidation. I also hope that this major American supplier, who has been driving this price war into utterly hopeless territory, will now come to the conclusion that American business practices are not always the best. Especially if we are no longer dealing with a mass market. Their business model always focuses on the strategy of dumping for as long as necessary to eliminate all competitors and then using the monopoly to raise prices and make a fortune. This company was the largest customer for both Ilford and Forte, and they have played both of them off against each other for years to squeeze even lower prices. Now they are left without any supply. I hope they realise this and change their strategy in future so we do not have such a situation again. We expect Forte to pull through and hope that our stock will see us through the coming months of interrupted supply. If, for some reason, they never resume coating again, then we certainly will try to recreate their recipes on different machines and continue producing their papers in another factory. Cheers from Berlin, Mirko

Gast

Thank you, Mirko, for your clear and comprehensive explanation. There’s no need to comment on the American film market over the last few years! Every photographer using medium and large formats has seen online the price war over unlabelled films in the USA, along with all the speculation about WHO manufactured the films and the negative consequences for the original brands. I hope that both Forte and Ilford will resume operations, albeit with a different focus for their core business. Paying more for good, reliable black-and-white products is not a problem until they become overpriced, as has been the case with some Kodak items in recent years. Improved technology is not significant enough in black-and-white films and paper to justify paying more for every new product launched on the market. For 80% of users, ‘old’ films and papers work just as well as the latest ‘miraculous’ discovery on the market. In this market (medium and large format), which is in decline, for me as a customer, it is of the utmost importance to find a variety of good, reliable and readily available products at market prices – no deep discounts, nor exorbitant prices! The discussion could go on… with further comments from forum participants. Ciao Daniele

Gast

My previous post was from an unregistered user. This is my fault I apologise Daniele

ongarine

OOPS The last two posts from ongarine... a bit confusing. It might just be a bit of a grey day. Daniele PS I’LL BE WAITING FOR COMMENTS FROM BW CUSTOMERS REGARDING THE CURRENT AVAILABILITY OF FILMS AND PAPER

Gast

Hi Daniele, With Forte, it’s much the same as with Ilford: it’s hard to say for sure. The people who were in charge before are no longer there, and the insolvency protection shields them from their creditors, but no fresh money is coming in. So at this point, there’s no reason to give up on either of these companies but I certainly can’t promise you that they’ll start coating again. All I can tell you is what might happen. If the administrator decides to continue production and if they can raise capital from somewhere, and if their customers (people like you) are willing to finally pay a little more for the paper so that at least the production costs are covered (the price of B/W paper hasn’t risen since 1985, once you factor in inflation), then they can start coating again in about three months. Much the same applies to Ilford, only on a much larger scale. Forte needs a few hundred thousand euros; Ilford needs 80 million. Both companies have been undercutting each other on the market over the last three years to secure sales from one major customer in California. As a result, both went into liquidation. I also hope that this major American supplier, who has triggered this price war in utterly hopeless regions, will now come to the conclusion that American business isn’t always the best. Especially if we are no longer dealing with a mass market. Their business model always focuses on the strategy of dumping for as long as necessary to eliminate all competitors and then using the monopoly to raise prices and make a fortune. This company was the largest customer for both Ilford and Forte, and they have played both of them off against each other for years to squeeze even lower prices. Now they are left without any supply. I hope they see this and change their strategy in future so we do not face such a situation again. We expect Forte to pull through and hope that our stock will see us through the coming months of supply disruption. If, for some reason, they are unable to resume coating, then we will certainly attempt to recreate their formulations on different machines and continue producing their papers at another factory. Best regards from Berlin, Mirko

I hope Forte will continue because all my production relies on it; by the way, is there any supplier in Belgium and the Netherlands

MirkoBoeddecker

"Unknown", you can buy these products from us. They are called Classic or ADOX Fine Print. Mirko

MirkoBoeddecker

Hi everyone, Good news: Forte will continue. The administrator has decided to resume production. They have been given permission to fulfil all outstanding orders in the first quarter of 2005. The only condition is that production must be profitable and that they must raise the necessary funds themselves. Consequently, we have to prepayfor this production, which limits the size of our orders, and prices will rise by around 10%. If all goes well and they manage to sell at profitable prices, and if all other customers are willing to prepay as well, then a second round can go ahead in March, even under administration. As for us, we have decided to focus our limited funds on Forte’s best papers: Polywarmtone Fibre and RC. We have invested all our spare funds in a large stock of these papers and hope to be able to serve you best during this transitional period until Forte has found a new structure or owner. Polykaltton will be replaced by ADOX Fine Print Vario Classic, as this paper is also superior (thicker base, more silver, deeper blacks and about one grade harder when filtered with full magenta). If there is anyone out there with spare cash ;) willing to help or acquire shares, please contact us. Cheers from Berlin, Mirko FOTOIMPEX