klausentreiben
Hello, after years away from it, I’m getting back into black-and-white film development, so my knowledge is rather basic.
My problem is that I only receive 1–4 rolls of film for exposure each year. That’s too few, so I’m worried the developing solution will go off and I’ll end up wasting a roll of film trying to sort it out.
Which developer product can you recommend for this problem? I currently use Ilford Delta 100/400 and would like to be flexible in my choice of film. The development process should be straightforward without much calibration. I want to use the developer as a single-use developer. I will, by my own admission, have a maximum of 2 films in the can and will pour the chemicals away straight away. Is there anything more environmentally friendly?
What I’ve read in forums so far:
powdered developer components
, e.g. Atomal, last forever unopened, but that’s no use to me as the processed solution needs to be used within 6 weeks.
Processing of partial batches is discouraged due to separation. Is this confirmed? Can liquid components, e.g. Moersch Finol, be partially processed? But what is the shelf life of these opened bottles?
Liquid concentrates in small quantities:
here I’ve come across the smallest usable quantities with good shelf life.
Tetenal Ultrafin T Plus
500 mL, shelf life: unopened 2 years, opened 6 months, prepared 2 months, will be just enough for 8 films. So 2 euros per film.
Tetenal Neofin Blaue, 6 ampoules
, each with a 2-year shelf life, for exactly 6 films. Safest option: 2.4 euros per film, but a real alternative to the botched lab.
Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid
250 mL, no information on shelf life?
Can anyone conclusively explain the difference between the 3 Tetenal brands? Should I use a specific developer for T-crystals?
Rodinal or Adox Adonal 100ml
. This is said to be the developer with the longest shelf life
, even years later
and even with the bottle open. However, there are no specific details. Can anyone confirm this?
The smallest quantity of 100ml is enough here for 2.6 litres of working solution. With my development tank, that would be 8 films at 0.65 euros per film. Even if it goes off, the loss isn’t great, but what about the quality? Is Adonal still suitable for modern T-crystal films such as Ilford Delta 100 or Delta 400?
Hello, after years away from it, I’m getting back into black-and-white film development, so my knowledge is rudimentary.
My problem is that I only receive 1–4 exposures a year. That’s too few, so I’m worried the developing chemicals will go off and I’ll lose a film while trying to figure it out.
Which batch/developer can you recommend for this problem?
What I’ve read in forums so far:
powdered developer components
, e.g. Atomal, keep indefinitely unopened, but that’s no use as the processing of the prepared solution should be completed within 6 weeks.
Preparing batches in smaller quantities is not recommended due to separation.
Can liquid components, e.g. Moersch Finol, be prepared in partial batches? What is the shelf life of opened bottles?
Liquid concentrates in small quantities:
here I have come across the smallest usable quantities with good shelf life.
Tetenal Ultrafin T Plus
500 mL, shelf life: unopened 2 years, opened 6 months, mixed 2 months; will be just enough for 8 films. So 2 euros per film.
Tetenal Neofin Blaue, 6 ampoules
, each with a 2-year shelf life, for exactly 6 films. The safest and most expensive at 2.4 euros per film, but a genuine alternative to a botched lab job.
Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid
250 mL, no information on shelf life?
Can anyone explain the difference between the three Tetenal brands to me in a way that makes sense?
Rodinal or Adox Adonal 100 ml
. This is said to be the developer with the longest shelf life, even years later
and even with the bottle opened. However, there are no specific details. Can anyone confirm this?
The smallest quantity of 100ml is enough here for 2.6 litres of working solution. With my developing tank, that would be 8 films at 0.65 euros per film.
Is Adonal still suitable for modern T-crystal films such as Ilford Delta 100 or Delta 400?
What can you recommend?
Urnes
You could try Atomal A49. The Deltas work very well with that.
I assume you’re pouring it in. In that case, you’ll need about 500ml for one can.
Get yourself a brown Schott glass or chemical bottle with a Teflon seal. It seals airtight. It’s best to use a half-litre bottle. Then prepare 1 litre. Use 500ml straight away and put the residue in the bottle. It should then last a good six months. Or longer. As long as it isn’t brown, I use the mixture for longer too.
Regards, Sven.
Wolf_XL
... just between us – if the cost of developing 1–4 films a year is a factor, maybe you should find yourself a different hobby...?
klausentreiben
Thanks, Urnes, for the helpful reply.
Shouldn’t Atomal also be diluted at a ratio of at least 1:2? I’ve noticed that the results improve that way.
As someone who cares about the environment, I’m keen to make full use of resources; I also feel bad about throwing away unused but expired chemicals.
My developing tank recommends 325 ml for one film and 570 ml if I load two films; after that, I’d have to pour the rest away due to lack of storage space. Using your method, you can only develop two films; with 3 litres, I’d manage just under 10 films.
Urnes
No. You can work with stock solution. Unless you need a balancing or stock development process.
Disposing of developer isn’t a problem, provided it’s oxidised. But fixer does actually last for four weeks, and silver is toxic.
So now think about how many prints you actually make from a roll of film and how many were unnecessary. How much paper you have to throw away before the print is right, etc.
An alternative would be drawing. 1 pencil and 1 sheet of paper.
Regards, Sven.
Wolf_XL
...consider Neofin Blaue – it comes closest to the desired profile.
klausentreiben
...consider Neofin Blaue – it comes closest to the desired profile.
I’ve actually been considering that one recently too! As individual 50 ml bottles add up to 6 x 700 ml.
What do you think of this suggestion: Ultrafin T Plus in 500 ml, plus a glass bottle straight away and
gas to seal off the oxygen on top; that should maintain the shelf life for the original 2 years even with partial withdrawal.
However, I’m not aware of the differences in the properties of the two products.
With Ultrafin, for example, it says ‘balancing’ – what does that mean compared to Neofin Blaue?
Is the Neofin an older type because the description doesn’t mention the T-crystal typology?
klausentreiben
I’ve read that Ultrafin T Plus is for the finest grain. Is that still a significant factor with 100 ASA film?
Neofin Blaue for greater sharpness. At the expense of …
Wolf_XL
...this is where it gets tricky – finding the most cost-effective developer for your personal throughput is one thing, but whether that developer actually works well with your preferred film is another. Not to mention personal taste... Unfortunately, the properties of a developer touted in the data sheets don’t always apply to all films. Rodinal or HC-110, for example, would be ideal for your requirements in terms of shelf life – but in my experience, they tend to be a second choice for T-Grain films like the Delta. Although, on the other hand, there are users who see it quite differently...?
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You’ll have no choice but to try out the film/developer combinations you’ve in mind yourself and then decide.
grommi
"Is there anything more eco-friendly?"
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Of course: Caffenol. As a single-use developer, just pour it down the drain after use. Instant coffee, washing soda, vitamin C powder and, if needed, iodised table salt are available in any well-stocked supermarket. Around 40 cents per 35mm development, always freshly prepared, nothing goes to waste -> caffenol.blogspot.com
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Another tip: don’t make a pseudo-scientific fuss over a simple matter, but work carefully.
RalfMichael
Hello Klausentreiben,
Back in the 1970s, as a schoolboy, I often developed film using Rodinal to save money. Last year (or at the end of 2016), I found an unopened bottle of Rodinal and a bottle that was two-thirds full in the cellar after it had been sitting there for 40 years. Not only with the originally sealed bottle, but also with the opened concentrate bottle, film development was still perfectly possible (!). At a dilution of 1:25, Rodinal was quite good and had fine grain,
unfortunately, out of stinginess, we often diluted it 1:100 back then; don’t do that, it’s coarser-grained and worse. At least back then, I did treat myself to Ilford ID 11 and Microphen for important films.
I also used Neofin Rot or blue sometimes; it was OK, but never the film with the finest grain. I don’t know, however, if they’re still the same today.
Fotoimpex stocks a developer equivalent to Rodinal, but I haven’t tried it yet.
The Rodinal bottles mentioned are 125ml glass bottles.
Ilford used to have a comparable single-use developer called Ilfosol, but I didn’t get very good results with that.
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Incidentally, I’m in the same boat as you: from 1970 to around 1986, I developed about 220 rolls of black-and-white negative film (120, 135 and 127), whereas today I might only do five a year. Still, I’m sticking with the hobby and won’t let anyone talk me out of it. I still shoot analogue too, but since the 1980s it’s been mostly colour.
Best regards, Ralf
klausentreiben
You could try Atomal A49. The Deltas work very well with that.
I assume you’re pouring it in. In that case, you’ll need about 500ml for one can.
Get yourself a brown beaker or chemical bottle with a Teflon seal. It seals airtight. It’s best to use a half-litre bottle. Then prepare 1 litre. Use 500ml straight away and put the residue in the bottle. It should then last a good six months. Or longer. As long as it isn’t brown, I use the solution for longer too.
Regards, Sven.
From the Adox instructions for Atomal:
"To prepare 1 litre of working solution (stock solution). The stock solution can be further diluted to use ADOX ATOMAL 49 as a single-use developer. This makes temperature control easier. In addition, the dilution factors are eliminated, making the results of a 1+1 or 1+2 development consistently reproducible. Once prepared, ATOMAL 49 will keep for approx. 6 weeks in tightly sealed glass bottles. One litre of stock solution is sufficient to develop 10 films."
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Based on this, I conclude that the stock solution should be diluted when used as a single-use developer, at a minimum ratio of 1:1. This yields 2 litres of working solution, which is then discarded after a single use. This is roughly enough for 5 films. Am I understanding this correctly?
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If you use the working solution straight away, are there any (shortened) processing times specified for this? Wouldn’t the temperature, time and agitation frequency then need to be adhered to even more precisely?
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It would be practical to first portion the stock solution into 200ml glass bottles and dilute it to 1:1 when using it, making 400ml, and then use this for 1 film. The result would then also be a yield of 10 films.
Ulf-Benno
Dear photography enthusiasts,
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I’d like to take this opportunity to dispel a few myths before anyone loses their enthusiasm for developing film. The Delta 400 produces excellent results with Atomal A49. However, I have had one roll turn out too light because the developer had been used several times and the development time was simply too short. That’s why I always recommend using fresh developer.
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The developer should always be prepared with boiled water and stored in clear glass bottles. The rubberised metal lids from juice bottles are perfectly adequate. The developer binds some oxygen and the lid is sucked in, indicating that it is airtight. Should the developer nevertheless go off, it will turn black. Therefore, please do not use dark bottles. I recommend cardboard boxes to protect against light during storage. A slight yellowing is harmless. Dark yellow developer must be tested before use and is usually still very good.
The shelf life, even for a half-full bottle, is at least 5 years! Probably considerably longer.
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To develop economically and to a high standard, I recommend 100 ml of stock solution for every 35mm film (135-36), but at least 70 ml. The solution is then diluted according to the can size and the development time extended. It couldn’t be simpler.
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Example: The Plastimat can requires 300 ml for one film: i.e. dilution 1+2, extension factor multiplied by 3
For 2 films, 500 ml: dilution 1+1.5, extension factor multiplied by 2.5
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The Zeiss-Ikon can holds 370 ml for one film: dilution 1+2.7, extension factor multiplied by 3.7
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The downside is the tedious turning or tilting. It must be kept in constant motion!
I recommend a foot spa to help with agitation.
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This achieves truly very even and high-quality developments, with the most economical consumption.
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Ulf-Benno
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Wolf_XL
You know the lab technician's mantra?!?? B)
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Never, ever put chemicals in drinks bottles...?? :rolleyes:
