Gast
Hello,
When it comes to old colour films, Svema’s Sovcolor should be ideal; I recently took some black-and-white photos using Svema.
Someone on the phototec forum asked about old colour film and mentioned this one (though it’s actually cinema film, as I found out from an overview); you could have a few reels made and sell them. I’d be interested in some old-fashioned colour film myself, and I don’t think I’m the only one.
These Agfa/Orwocolor types have a real special charm.
Roland
MirkoBoeddecker
Roland,
You need to distinguish between black-and-white and colour films.
In theory, black-and-white films can be processed in any developer.
For several years now, all colour films have been standardised for the C-41 process.
All colour films produced and sold today are more or less equally good. It’s not that there are no differences, but they are not as significant as those between C-41 and ORWOCOLOR.
Since C-41 minilabs are now found everywhere in Russia, Tasma will certainly no longer run its own process but – just like Foma, efke or Forte – will load Fuji or Agfa raw material and brand it as Tasma.
It therefore makes no sense to re-import such colour films.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Mr Boeddecker,
I don’t want to go round grumbling like a certain F. here, but Svema does at least produce colour film; I can prove that to you twice over.
http://filmmaker.iatp.org.ua/svema_e.htm
http://www.privatisation.kiev.ua/Priv_Deu/...erichtKW132.htm
in the second link (an economic report by the Ukrainian government), it states (this is in German)
"The most important products and services in the first half of 2002: cinema and photographic film – 8,668 thousand running metres, of which black-and-white photographic film – 8,633 thousand running metres, [color="red"]colour film – 35 thousand metres[/colo, cinema and photographic film for amateurs – 1,163 thousand metres, film for X-rays – 4,991 thousand metres, magnetic film – 4,459 thousand metres."
and the first link shows an overview that backs this up; I don’t want to spout nonsense here – I only looked into Svema in such detail because I needed some time to process my holiday films from Crimea and then found the research enjoyable.
Roland
Gast
Hello,
Unfortunately, I don’t speak Russian, otherwise I would have asked them ages ago, but if you don’t believe me, you’re welcome to check for yourself.
And (more importantly) have a lovely time in Croatia.
Roland
Gast
Roland, be careful with such insubordinate remarks, or else the resident parrot will just copy and paste half the New York phone book here to prove you wrong.
MirkoBoeddecker
Roland,
I may have misunderstood you.
I thought you were looking for the old-fashioned look of an old ORWO colour film. You won’t get that with a modern C-41 film – even if it was produced by Svema. Unless it’s a modern C-41 film, you won’t be able to get it developed (which also makes it extremely difficult to sell).
That was actually what I was trying to get across.
I haven’t spoken to Svema on the phone for two years, but I don’t think it’s self-perforated stock.
Especially with cinema films, the cost of packaging is very high due to the precision required for the perforation.
So if Svema is selling colour film stock, it is highly likely to be self-perforated raw material from one of the major Western production facilities.
I don’t know for certain, though. I’d have to check that first.
Regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hello,
It wouldn't be a bad idea to check that; then we'd know for sure.
Roland
MirkoBoeddecker
Roland,
Is it worth it?
Have you seen any examples of the material that had a unique style of their own?
In principle, we’re always open to things like that.
I’ll have a chat on the phone on Monday with someone who might know.
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hello,
I’m only familiar with Svema’s black-and-white film, but there was a post on the Phototec forum recently:
(This Werner Schmidt isn’t the Werner on this forum – I know that because I know the Werner on this forum personally, so you don’t need to ask him about it)
Hello photography enthusiasts,
I’ve been looking at quite a lot of old Agfacolor slides recently and would love to recreate this colour rendering. It’s actually quite off the mark, but I rather like this slightly dreamy colour rendering.
After doing some research online, I found that CBEMA’s Sovcolor material is supposed to come quite close to it; recently, there was also a Russian documentary about Chechnya on MDR that looked like that.
However, I don’t think it’s possible to achieve that. Does anyone on the forum perhaps have any ideas on how to get those ‘old-fashioned’ colours like in the 1950s, perhaps through development or special filters, exposure, etc.?
Many thanks
Werner Schmidt
Roland
Gast
Hello,
A film like that would be really exciting; I could definitely see it working well as a black-and-white film – it would evoke a sense of nostalgia.
Thanks, Roland, for the info on Svema, but should I give their black-and-white film a go or not?
Paul
Gast
Hello,
Is Svema's Sovcolor still available, or has it been discontinued?
Roland
Gast
Hello,
Is Svema’s Sovcolor still available, or has it been discontinued?
Roland
Roland,
In early/mid-2002, I was in touch with someone who was living in Sumi at the time – that’s where the Svema factory is based. According to Vadim, production had been scaled back significantly by then and was limited to black-and-white film; he managed, with great difficulty, to scrape together a few residual rolls of 16mm film.
The Russians, Ukrainians and Armenians now use Western-made colour film – our Armenian helper Giro took photos with a 1985 Zenit ET in mint condition, and his wife (and our cook) Gayane passed round family photos one evening. These dated back to around 1998 (i.e. more turbulent times) and were, without exception, printed on Fuji Crystal Archive (and rather dull – the same effect as in German Christmas films – 5 Christmas trees from 5 years on a single roll ;-).
Mind you – in the middle of nowhere in Armenia, in a mountain village in the far south. And the family was anything but well-off; Giro worked as a day labourer alongside running a small farm.
Mirko, the address given in
http://filmmaker.iatp.org.ua/svema_e.htm is correct; it matches the one Vadim mentioned at the time.
Sumi is halfway between Kharkov (where the FEDs and a few Antonovs come from) and Kursk (on the Russian side of the border). I could try and get the lowdown from someone in Kharkov on the current situation.
A nice quirk of Svema is that a reference development time is printed on the packet for each emulsion. And I’ve got an original TMAX-Svema from 1992 lying around here. Smart packet design – constructivist – other manufacturers could learn a thing or two from that.
Regards,
Roman
Gast
Roman,
You’re absolutely right about the boxes; I think they’re brilliant too.
As for your Svema T-Max, I suspect it was pre-spooled Kodak film (Kodak couldn’t have sold it there as a competitor anyway), which, judging by the expiry date, must date from the Soviet era; perhaps their own (35mm) film wasn’t sufficient for all purposes.
I’ve described my experiences with FN 64 on the Phototec forum; incidentally, in Ukraine – at least in the camera shop where I bought it – they only had FN 64; Foto 100, Foto 400 and Foto 200 were also supposed to be available (but they’d run out).
As I said, Svema has lovely grey tones similar to pre-war Agfa films and a very generous exposure latitude (almost every enlargement comes out decent straight away), but it is very coarse-grained (perhaps stirred too vigorously at customs, or stored poorly?) and somewhat poorly processed (possibly a coincidence).
I think you wanted to see some images on Phototec; I don’t have a website, but I’ve found some here (mine were less steep as they were 64 GOST and these are 32 GOST film)
http://www.007-berlin.de/de/menu/1201-ausstellung-kont01.htm
Gast
Roland,
You’ve really unearthed some remarkable photographs there; they’re a true record of their time and, what’s more, they’re really well done. I even think that this relatively dark rendering with deep shadows isn’t just down to the material, but is intended to convey the atmosphere.
Werner
RomanJRohleder
Roland,
I’ve often found high design quality in Soviet products… Rodchenko called it, if I remember correctly, “productive art” or something similar – essentially, “design without practical value” was frowned upon in the 1920s and 1930s, so people focused on what we’d easily call “design” today – furniture, porcelain, but also layout. Proper stuff, including in architecture; unfortunately, a hell of a lot of creativity (and more) was lost from around 1932 onwards – the Stalinist “confectioner’s style” took hold and for a good 20 years nothing functional was created – for almost 10 years, the grand Palace of Culture in Moscow was the only ongoing competition in the city… nothing else! The Church of the Saviour was demolished, the hall wasn’t built after all, and a swimming pool was built on the foundations... the church now stands once more.
Back to the topic. ;-)
Nah, I don’t think Kodak roll film was packed in there – it would have been unaffordable. I won’t be unpacking mine and exposing it either; it’ll stay in the drawer as it is... but I can have a word with the generous donor to find out what the edge exposure tells us and what the film characteristics are.... Martin had ‘accidentally’ snapped up just under 100 rolls for 1 EUR.
Regarding the image characteristics you mentioned – Willi Beutler discusses the effect of the high exposure latitude in ‘Meine Dunkelkammerpraxis’ – classic ‘thick-layer’ film. And the grain should also be manageable – through correct exposure, for example. <g> Beutler also provides processing tips... the problems and their solutions should be transferable, and the book belongs on the shelf of any decent home processor anyway.
_Also_ because of the sample images. A little dated, but classic and irreplaceable.
Just on Sunday I saw a few lovely pictures from the pre-war era – Paul Wolf (former Leica guru), in the Moellerhalle at the Völklinger Hütte.
http://www.voelklinger-huette.org/site.php...ak_at&pm_id=115
He had slight issues with sharpness placement, but the pictures are very fine overall... though the prints on display are large-format prints.
How does the “mediocre” processing show itself?
Regarding the “sample gallery” – Gnar, did it absolutely have to be Caucasus stuff? Off there! NOW! :-)
Regards,
Roman
Gast
Roman,
It has to be a Caucasus piece; I couldn’t find any other pictures, just images of constellations, but those aren’t really any use for assessing it.
‘Moderate quality’ means there were scuff marks and scratches on the back of the base, though they were so fine that they didn’t show up in the images at all, which was a real shame; moreover, there were small holes in the emulsion in some places on the film (perhaps a coincidence – I’ve had that happen with an Ilford film before), the film was certainly coated cleanly, but I suspect the spooling machines damaged the emulsion; they’d simply find a buyer here in the West, bringing in a decent sum to refurbish the machines.
But what I really liked about Svema were the 35mm film cartridges, as they are reusable and fitted with a screw-on cap.
I think I’ll get hold of a larger quantity of Svema and carry out extensive test developments and exposure tests with it.
Roland
MirkoBoeddecker
Roland,
Back in the GDR days, Svema was what everyone feared.
"You forgot the colour film" was sung in Russia using black-and-white film as well.
Svema was only used in the most exceptional cases, and people would always pull out a few rolls beforehand to check if there was any emulsion on them at all.
The white spots are caused by poor coating and are also a characteristic of Svema.
The plastic cassettes can only be reeled completely by hand and also attract dust. If you’re not careful, they spring open and the film is ruined.
Wherever you reel by hand, there are always smudges and scratches (oops, where are my white gloves—oh never mind; Haaatschieee—oh dear..... :-)—that’s just how it is.
These were all the reasons why we didn’t get involved with Svema back in 1992.
The last PHOTO64 films I had in my hands were dated 2002 and appeared to be OK.
If the material has actually improved, one could try buying the raw material and then having it processed by machine elsewhere.
I’ll look into it over the next few weeks and then we’ll give it a go.
Best regards,
Mirko
If I’m not mistaken, retrophotographic.com has a few Svemas in stock.
I think I saw some there.
MirkoBoeddecker
I forgot to mention: the plastic cassettes are made in Spain and can be purchased from us as AP plastic cassettes. They’re actually cheaper than metal cassettes.
Mirko
Gast
Hello,
Svema cassettes aren’t from Spain; the bottom says ‘135’, which is in Cyrillic, and I’d guess that stands for DIN 135 and refers to the film format. A German-speaking Ukrainian, who was also a photographer, told me in Crimea that Svema used Agfa’s factory facilities, which had been partially dismantled after the Second World War.
Mirko, Retrophotographic stocks Russian Tasma films; as far as I know, these aren’t the same as Svema. Besides, you should be able to agree on the quality with Svema – it works with Efke too, even if someone here keeps claiming the opposite.
As I said, the film was a bit too posh for 35mm, but I was really happy with my 6x9 shots.
I’ve also heard that the film advance issue with the Kiews resolves itself entirely when using Svema RF.
Roland
RomanJRohleder
Mirko,
Roland,
Back in the GDR days, Svema was what everyone feared.
“You’ve forgotten the colour film” was also sung in Russia with black and white. (...)
Best regards,
Mirko
LOL. Although even Roessing mentioned the films in “Entwickeln”, Fotokinoverlag. :-)
If you’re just looking for a quick, hassle-free source of test films – alex-photo or asr-photo regularly sell some on eBay.
Just had a look, he’s got Foto65 and Foto100 on offer, though the price isn’t great... but it’s fresh stock, expiring in August 2004 and 2005. So production’s still going strong.
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...item=2969737432
(Please forgive the link... ;-)
I prefer your AP cassettes; the metal ones have suffered a bit and the paint has chipped – with others, this has already led to scratches. And it’s great that the AP website is back online... <g>
All the best,
Roman
PS: By the way, the FX-R is brilliant... 25 seconds development time with R50 and 1+4, no stench... Thanks for all your trouble. :-)
