Gast
"€ EFKE, as has even been reported in Zagreb’s daily newspapers, has ceased PRODUCTION – specifically, the coating process. In the long term, you will no longer be able to obtain any fresh, regularly produced film from there, regardless of who you go through. :: "
I received this news today. The source is, by the way, very reliable and does not spread ‘rumours’. Whether Efke will now disappear from the market entirely or whether there will somehow, somewhere, be ‘other Efkes’ is not known to me.
It’s a shame; Efke produced good films at a reasonable price. :D
rherz
Hi Zensusa,
If the source is that reliable, then surely you can name it – can’t you?
Best regards,
Robert
:D
zensusa
Hello rherz,
I can’t reveal the ‘source’ – they have personal reasons and commitments, and you’ll just have to accept that. Otherwise, if it’s even worth a ‘Zagreb press report’, it’s probably true (to forestall any questions: I don’t have a Zagreb newspaper, so I haven’t seen the report myself). On the other hand, I’m not the sort of person who casually spreads rumours just to cause a bit of a stir!
I don’t actually know exactly what will happen – whether Efke will cease production entirely, whether production will continue elsewhere, and so on. But perhaps “FOTOIMPEX” knows more by now. As far as I’m concerned, the possible demise of Efke is very annoying, as I’ve already ‘lost’ films on several occasions that I’d painstakingly fitted into my workflow and tested. Now I’ll probably have to start looking for new options again for the 25-exposure roll and sheet films, as well as the 100-exposure ones. I really just want to take photos, not constantly be testing and fine-tuning! By the way, I switched to Efke years ago, not just because they were/are good and affordable films, but also because I assumed that a small manufacturer like that would be more reliable than the “big players”, who have already scrapped enough good materials, films and papers. But you can be so wrong java script:emoticon(':D)
There’s probably not much more to say on this subject at the moment. Anyone with more detailed information should get in touch.
MirkoBoeddecker
We cannot confirm this rumour.
We’ve just received some freshly coated material – it’s a current batch in production – but it probably won’t be ready before the summer break. Every year, Efke halts production for a few weeks in the summer to service the machinery. That’s nothing new. It has to be done – a sort of ‘switch on’ and ‘get things sorted’ sort of thing.
All Efke films and formats are available.
A reliable source who wishes to remain anonymous... well, they must be reliable then :)
Rumours of this sort are constantly circulating. So I can only repeat myself: as long as sales are good, nothing will be discontinued.
And if we have to relocate production, then we’ll do that (not the first time for efke).
Incidentally, emulsion has not been produced in Zagreb since the late 90s. When was that newspaper published?
Best regards,
Mirko
FOTOIMPEX
PS: I’m at Forte in Hungary and can’t always reply straight away :D
Gast
Once again:
I did not post this information on the forum to cause confusion or a stir, but rather to potentially provide clarity and planning certainty, because anyone who browses through the topics on this forum will notice that ‘the constant disappearance of paper and film from the market’ is a very important issue here and one that concerns many users.
Everyone has experienced this “disappearing from the market” phenomenon, particularly with the major suppliers.
On the other hand, it is claimed in various places on this forum that one is on the “safe side” when it comes to films and papers from smaller manufacturers (e.g. Efke, Forte = Classic) and so on. Which would, of course, be desirable, because who wants to change their film or paper brand on a regular basis? After all, such a change has numerous consequences for one’s own work. Therefore, although I fully understand “FOTOIMPEX”’s position as an Efke distributor, it is important to know whether I will still be able to get Efke films in a few months’ time or not!? That is the only issue at stake! And one should therefore strive for clarity and honesty, rather than introducing polemics and spurious arguments into the discussion.
In other words, I never said that the “reliable source (which) does not wish to be named.......”, but rather I said that I will not name it. That is a small but significant difference!
And your lovely sentence, Mirko, “Incidentally, emulsion has not been produced in Zagreb since the late 90s. When is the newspaper from, then?” has nothing to do with the facts either, because the excerpt from the information I received states: “? ? EFKE, as can already be read in Zagreb daily newspapers, has ceased PRODUCTION, the coating process?”. So it is not referring to Zagreb as a production site, but rather it is being reported in Zagreb daily newspapers. And according to these reports, there is to be a cessation of production, not a summer break. One should read and interpret the sentences correctly. If this information turns out to be incorrect, so much the better! But if it is correct, then all Efke users – and above all those who wish to become users – should be made aware that Efke might soon cease to exist, because nothing is more frustrating than realising that one has invested time, effort and money completely in vain, in the wrong materials.
Best regards
MirkoBoeddecker
Zensusa,
I’m not accusing you of anything, but I’m not quite sure what you’d like to hear from me...
Are you pleased that Efke is still around, or do you absolutely want it confirmed that Efke won’t exist in the future because it was supposedly in a daily newspaper and someone who isn’t named said so?
Whether you don’t want to name the source or the source doesn’t want to be named – it doesn’t change the fact that I can’t comment on this because I don’t have the essential facts.
My source is Fotokemika itself, and as recently as last week they were saying that everything looks good as long as we continue to order as much as we do.
New products are even being developed for us at the moment.
Should that no longer be the case (regarding order volumes), we’ll have to consider our options – such as a licensed relocation of production.
This market has enormous capacity, as the factories were built to meet a completely different demand than the market that currently exists.
Restructuring is inevitable everywhere and at all times.
No one can guarantee that you’ll still be able to get the same material in 2, 5 or 10 years’ time. No matter which manufacturer.
Only this much is certain: with our partners, much smaller casting sizes can be produced economically than with the large factories in the West, and that’s why it’s true that we can be a more reliable partner in this regard. You’re never 100% ‘on the safe side’, as you put it. That would also mean, conversely, that no product improvements could be made.
The Agfa sheet and roll film plant is currently being demolished. That’s a shame, but there’s nothing we can do about it.
We always strive to find a replacement or come up with another solution.
Back to efke: production is currently underway. It will continue tomorrow morning. It stopped this afternoon. As long as our order volumes remain as they are, this will continue – we have received no other information from management. Five pallets full of fresh film arrived last week. The entire range is in stock and available for delivery.
Whoever told a newspaper this must either have outdated information, or it is speculation based on the fact that a major customer has unfortunately turned away from efke to try their luck elsewhere.
Of course, nothing would suit him better than if efke were to close – then he would finally be rid of that tiresome competition.
A rumour like that is just what ‘he’ needs right now. However, I don’t want to make any insinuations here that I cannot prove.
This issue has been on the table for over a year now. Yet nothing has been decided.
As the US market has developed extremely well (the efke PL100 has become THE PYRO film par excellence), things actually look rather good at the moment.
This applies to the existing facility not far from Zagreb as well.
In any case, we will leave no stone unturned to continue offering all our materials for as long as possible.
efke is our driving force in many markets. We would be foolish to drop the film.
I’m sorry if, in my haste this afternoon, I overlooked a few “nuances” in the formulation and replied too hastily.
But you must also understand how a post like that is received here.
After all, something like that is not only damaging to business if it remains unchallenged, but could also lead precisely to the decline in demand that would bring about what we were ‘warned’ about.
That cannot be in our or your interests!
Best regards,
Mirko
FOTOIMPEX
cfb_de
As a rule, I don’t believe anything that’s bandied about by people who won’t even give their own names. Solution: Register here and then reply by email.
Generally speaking, I find it hard to believe second-hand reports where the direct source ‘cannot be named’. Solution: Name the source. We’re not in the loo here, so we don’t need the sort of language you’d expect there.
Conspiracy theories are about the last thing this elite SW market needs.
Best regards,
Franz S. Borgerding
Gast
Hello Mirko,
That was a clear statement from you. So Efke films are still available – that’s all I wanted to know, and I’m sure other users did too! As I mentioned before, I use Efke films myself, so I’m naturally delighted.
Best regards
By the way, as for dear Franz’s comments regarding ‘conspiracy theories’ and so on – perhaps he’s watched too many bad films – I hardly think there was any reference to conspiracy or similar nonsense in my post. That was certainly not the point of my post, and any sensible reader would surely have realised that.
I am now 54 years old and have been taking photographs since the 1960s, not just for fun – although that is the main driving force – but also to make a living, i.e. to earn money. And so I’ve seen a great deal when it comes to ‘rumours’ and ‘facts’, but posts like this about ‘conspiracy theories’, references to toilet slogans and the like are really just plain stupid.
Right, that really is my final comment.
Have a good night.
Gast
Mirko, which Agfa roll film factory are you referring to that’s currently being demolished? Just out of interest...
Roland
aXL
All efke films and formats are available.
Hi, Mirko.
Will I be getting my 9x12 PL 100 soon then? :D
Given the current rumours, I’d also like to increase my order from 100 sheets to 300 sheets. :)
What do you reckon?
Axel
MirkoBoeddecker
Axel,
As you can see above, I’m currently at Forte in Hungary.
So I can’t check the status of your order.
It’s best if you give them a call.
I can’t really imagine that Florian forgot to order the 9x12, although I have to admit that the non-inch sizes haven’t been selling like hot cakes recently...
Best regards,
Mirko
cfb_de
Mirko,
I’ll be placing another order with you soon for 13x18. It’s not much, but I want to finally put some pressure on myself to finish my craft project before the Apo-Germinar starts to go off here.
I’m still deciding between “Classic” (which you didn’t have in stock recently for Stefan’s order – my joint order) and Efke. You’ll see.
Best regards,
Franz
guymeurs
There’s so much being said these days
Forte’s gone bust, Efke’s closing down,.....
Let’s hope the digital lobby doesn’t succeed in making it so that you can hardly get any quality film or paper.When I compare what comes out of even the most expensive Epson as a print with a baryta print on Classic (Forte) or Fomatone taken with an Efke KB 50 (25 ISO) in my studio, I hope these films remain in the range for a long time to come.
Guy Meurs
Belgium
Gast
Hello,
As Mirko has already said, I find posts like this damaging to business. If someone is going to start spreading rumours of this sort, yet then acts all secretive about it, I think that’s extremely foolish. Ultimately, you are damaging your own reputation, Mr Lothar van de Renne.
A Croatian user on other forums has commented on this, saying that when faced with such rumours, he simply calls the factory
http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?...p?t=7508&page=1.
Please send me the original report from the Croatian newspaper (delete *NOSPAM* from the email address) – my wife will then translate the report. Let’s see what it actually says!
Best regards
Michael
MatthiasS
It’s clear from the Croatian’s post that Fotokemika have just closed their last ‘retail store’ – I’d translate that as a high-street shop. And he goes on to say that we’ll have to keep our fingers crossed that film will still be available. :lol:
So, I gather (entirely subjectively) from these statements that Fotokemika doesn’t seem to be doing very well – so a bit of scepticism seems entirely appropriate, doesn’t it? I don’t want to jump to conclusions, but I don’t want to end up with my nose in the ground either. Or is “not doing particularly well” such a normal state of affairs for photochemical businesses that we’re not allowed to talk about it, for fear of alarming a creditor? :o
MKL
Hello Matthias,
Between scepticism and spreading a rumour lies the assertion backed by so-called evidence. Scepticism is warranted when it comes to many manufacturers, as Kodak and Agfa are currently demonstrating. I’ve long been sceptical about how much longer certain products will remain on the market in the black-and-white sector, but they’re still here.
What gives me pause regarding the Croatian’s comments is the claim that Fotokemika relies mainly on X-ray films in the film sector, and I know that the new generation of X-ray machines from all manufacturers currently operates purely digitally.
But once again: Zensusa claims there are newspaper articles and an informant suggesting that production is to be discontinued. Enquiries from Marko at Fotokemika suggest the opposite, as do enquiries from the Croatian. The latter name their source – the former remains silent. That’s exactly what I don’t like!
Best regards
Michael
MatthiasS
X-ray film is still indispensable in certain areas – for example, at the dentist. I certainly wouldn’t have some monstrous digital chip implanted in my neck just because it’s ‘more modern’ :lol:
Otherwise, I don’t think modern X-ray machines are widely used in the Third World and the Far East; there will still be a need for X-ray film for quite some time to come. But can Fotokemika compete there?
Otherwise, on the subject at hand, sure, it’s not exactly the best choice not to cite any sources. But surely the question itself is allowed; he’s certainly not as paranoid as people would like to make dear Lothar out to be. So, instead of taking offence at the methodology, we should deal with the issue objectively. Because as much as I – and probably most others here (let’s leave Ferdinand out of this for now :)), would like to see it, that doesn’t seem to be the case with Fotokemika, does it? The question is simply: to what extent is this normal for such companies in the digital age? – Or to put it even more simply: what changes for me? Where can I get affordable, good-quality film – one I can get used to and don’t have to switch again in six months’ time?
I’m slowly starting to doubt myself a bit – maybe I should have gone for the Cube. :o
MKL
Hi Matthias,
That’s exactly what I mean by damaging to business! You’re pondering it. Without that stupid thread full of claims from mysterious sources, you wouldn’t be thinking about it, would you?
Everything that applies to Fotokemika also applies to other manufacturers, such as Agfa, Kodak, Fuji, Maco, Lucky, Ilford, etc. They’re all struggling in the analogue sector at the moment, and none of them will give you any guarantee regarding the long-term availability of film.
By now, at the very latest, if you like Efke films, you should either stop worrying or, logically, give up analogue black-and-white photography as a hobby.
I prefer to take the middle ground and use what I like, and if that’s no longer available, I’ll use something else. Testing it out costs the price of a roll of film.
Best regards
Michael
MirkoBoeddecker
Hello everyone,
Now, don’t be afraid and don’t give Lothar a hard time just because someone put a flea in his ear – and he was quite right to be worried.
After all, without him this thread wouldn’t have started, and there might well be more fleas jumping about. I’d now like to officially address all these fleas.
I’m currently on my regular visit to Fotokemika and, as well as reviewing the planning stage of our new products, we naturally also discussed the ‘operational situation’.
Background:
Fotokemika has to downsize just like other companies in order to adapt to changing market conditions. Our market is expanding, but lithography, colour and X-ray are in decline.
In concrete terms, this means that the workforce has shrunk from 5,000 employees in 1998 to around 500, and now, in a third phase, to around 50.
This inevitably involves redundancy plans and substantial severance payments (Fotokemika is a former state-owned enterprise). To generate this cash flow, fixed assets not essential to operations were liquidated and consolidated. This included the shop in Zagreb, which is now run by a private individual (…and, incidentally, still sells efke films – albeit at a ‘market price’ roughly equivalent to ours plus the higher VAT rate in Croatia).
Current situation:
Fotokemika has become Fotokemika Nova, and this new company has shed all obligations towards unnecessary staff and equipment, consolidating to the core necessary for operations. Land and property no longer essential to operations are up for sale.
Currently, Fotokemika is already covering its costs in the operational units remaining within the company, operating at 20% capacity!
Let’s see Agfa manage that!
Our orders alone (and these are yours!) already secure this 20%.
Anything on top of that generates a ‘surplus’, i.e. operating profit.
Once again:
As long as you continue to buy as you have done so far – or, if possible, a little more – things will continue.
With the new products Fotokemika is developing for us and for the American market, even greater increases should be possible.
The only restriction at present is:
Due to the 20% capacity utilisation, production schedules are stretched out, and in July and August, no emulsioning takes place at all for energy-related reasons (the air-conditioning system would ‘gulp down’ electricity worth €280 per day).
This means that, without taking on additional staff, delivery cycles now take 6 months.
So if, at some point (despite our new cold store), we’ve overcommitted ourselves with orders, you may have to wait a little while.
But that’s always been the way at IMPEX. What’s in stock you get straight away, and what isn’t takes a bit of time...
I hope this has cleared up any confusion and remaining doubts....
Best regards from Samobor near Zagreb,
Mirko
aXL
Hi, Mirko.
As for me – my doubts have been put to rest. Thank you.
I’d assumed anyway that a small company like Fotokemika would be better able to hold its own in the black and white niche than some department of some ‘global player’.
I’m experiencing this quite intensely at the moment with sheet films. I’ve got the cameras and loads of good double cassettes for them, so I don’t want to switch to inch formats.
In return, I’m happy to generate a bit of turnover myself and even hold an extra sheet up to the light now and then. B) I’ll just have to make up for the longer delivery times myself by placing bulk orders and making space in the freezer if you don’t do that for me. But I don’t want to ask for that anyway – your storage costs are higher than mine. :lol:
Foma 9x12 is coming in three weeks – and I loaded my last sheet yesterday... :o
Is it actually likely that enough orders will come in to produce another batch of efke 100 in 9x12? If there’s anyone out there who is involved in processing this: please order *now*! :)
See you soon,
Axel
