ferrytale
Hello photography community,
Perhaps someone could give me a tip: I’m currently trying to develop an old Russian Super 8 black and white reversal film that I exposed years ago. However, I’m skipping the complicated reversal process and just developing it as a negative. The development works fine, but the film simply doesn’t become clear and transparent during fixing. There seems to be an extra layer between the photographic emulsion and the support that won’t go away. It’s beige-grey, like undeveloped emulsion, but it never darkens during development and can’t be ‘fixed away’.
Does anyone have any experience with these old transparencies from the USSR? Unfortunately, I haven’t found anything online.
Many thanks in advance.
Ferry
ferrytale
OK, I’ve done a bit more ‘research’. Apparently, the grey emulsion is a kind of antihalation coating. I suppose I’ll have no choice but to get hold of the ingredients for a bleaching and fixing bath to see if that clears the film. Then, of course, I can develop the films properly straight away. (I’d just hoped to save myself that extra effort. Since I’d be scanning the films anyway, the negative would have been enough for me.)
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Regards,
Ferry
Magirus
Bleaching can also clean the negative really thoroughly......
Best regards, Bernd
ferrytale
Yes, I realise: the silver from the first development will be lost, and I’ll HAVE to go through the whole reversal process. But as I’ve since read, that’s advisable anyway, as it’s only the second development that produces a beautiful, fine-grained and detailed image. And with a mini Super 8 image, that’s certainly an advantage, so that everything doesn’t get lost in the grain.
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Best regards, Ferry
KlausWehner
If I’ve understood correctly, has the film already been fixed?
In that case, reversal processing is no longer possible.
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If the film is bleached at this stage, the remaining image information is removed from the film.
What remains is the clear base.
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Best regards,
Klaus
ferrytale
No, no. I’ve only treated small test patches of the film so far, not the whole roll. Sorry, I didn’t mention that.
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Ferry
KlausWehner
Unfortunately, we’re not out of the woods yet...
Has the film already been developed as a negative?
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The initial development in the UK process works differently from negative development.
If the film has already been developed as a negative, we can’t expect good results.
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Best regards,
Klaus
ferrytale
Good morning Klaus,
Thank you for your advice. The films are still untreated. I’ll only start developing them once I know exactly how the process works, of course. I realise that I’ll only have one chance to get it right.
I sent you an email yesterday as well, but only received an out-of-office reply.
It’s about the reversal process. I’ve read about your reversal kit, of course. I do think this highly specialised 10-bath process is a bit over the top for my old and presumably poorly exposed narrow-gauge films, but perhaps you could suggest a simpler process. I was thinking of following these instructions:
http://www.dagiebrundert.de/alle%20Bilder/Schmalfilm_Selbst_Entwicklen.pdf
Best regards,
Ferry
ferrytale
Oh, and by the way: I’ve already got hold of a Russian “landmine”, and I’m practising winding the film onto the spool using a ready-made roll first.
KlausWehner
I’m sure the film can be developed successfully using my reversal kit.
It would be worth testing the development time in the first developer beforehand.
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My kit contains all the necessary chemicals as liquid concentrates, making the process extremely simple.
The process is based on a proprietary chemical formulation. It is free from typical hazardous substances such as potassium dichromate or potassium thiocyanate.
It can therefore be considered particularly safe and environmentally friendly.
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The Wehner reversal process delivers results that are significantly better in quality than those obtained using the well-known standard processes.
Only three baths need to be prepared.
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If you have any questions on this topic, please feel free to contact me directly
klaus.wehner@web.de
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Kind regards
Klaus
ferrytale
Hi Klaus,
That sounds promising. I’ll see if a litre will be enough and get back to you by email.
Thanks in advance.
Ferry
ferrytale
Oh, blimey. I’ve messed it up. Everything was actually going really well, but when I gave it a quick rinse after the stop bath, it washed away half the emulsion. The residue then turned to silver and ran off into the second developer. Really annoying. Especially when you could already see the images and couldn’t wait to have a look at what you’d filmed nearly 20 years ago. Of course, it was stupid of me not to test a sample with the Wehner kit first. I probably clarified it for too long because the film was still so yellow and I thought it should be as white as possible before secondary development.
Oh well. At least my initial question has been clarified (along with the films)!
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(Now I need a whisky!)
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Good night!
Ferry
KlausWehner
It’s a real shame that there was a mishap like that!
Perhaps the film had become so unstable after being stored for so long that it wouldn’t have produced usable results even if it had been developed correctly.
Many other visual records from that period are not durable and have therefore been lost.
Now we have this loss to add to the list. What a pity!
So don’t be too upset. It was worth a try.
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Warm regards,
Klaus
Renate
Gelatine is a substance rich in nutrients that bacteria and fungi thrive on, and 20 years is a long time. Perhaps the Russian gelatine hadn’t been hardened properly either. Normally, it takes a very long time for the emulsion to peel away from the film. I then use an enzyme to break down the gelatine, and even then it still takes quite a long time for it to come away.
So it is likely that the detachment of the emulsion was not caused by the process.
Best regards,
Renate
KlausWehner
Yes, I agree: the gelatin, being an organic substance, was the weak point.
Nevertheless, I believe there’s a good chance of developing such old films.
It would have been necessary to:
1. stick to the times specified in the instructions and
2. carry out a test development using a small piece of film
Then it might have worked after all.
It was just an experiment.
Best regards,
Klaus
ferrytale
Yes. If only I’d kept to the timings, but I simply didn’t realise at the time that it was such a critical issue. I had completely different problems on my mind: would I manage to wind the films in the dark, would there be enough chemicals for the tank with two films, did I have all the equipment and tools where I needed them, how long should I develop in the first developer, and so on.
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And when the initial development was finished and I took the lid off the tank during bleaching and everything looked great, the residue could only be a piece of cake, especially as I could now do everything in the light.
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Well. Unfortunately, I was wrong.
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I later developed a test strip – the one I’d used earlier to check the development time – using standard processing times, and that worked perfectly.
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However, as I’ll probably never develop a reversal film again, this experience isn’t even a lesson to me. At most, it serves as a reminder that: When you do something for the first time, you’re bound to make a mistake, even if you feel you’ve got the whole thing under control. So don’t use anything irreplaceable for your first attempt!
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Right. And now I need to make sure I quickly forget I ever owned these Super 8 films.
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Many thanks to everyone for your support and comfort.
Ferry
Olivinyl
Hi Ferry,
Why give up so easily?
To get a sense of achievement as a ‘reverse-processing beginner’, you’ve made the biggest mistake you could possibly make – you’ve been working with old and expired film.
Old and expired film always needs special treatment; you can have the best reversal developer (Wehner kit) in the world, but if the film is rubbish, it won’t help.
How often do I read in the forums: “Beginner having problems with film development”, negatives too flat, fog, spots, etc... When asked, it usually turns out that old, expired film was used to save money.
So get yourself some new, unexpired film. Perform exposure and processing with the Wehner kit. If there are still problems – which I don’t believe there will be – this will make it easier to narrow down and find the fault.
Best wishes, Oliver
