Gast
Hello forum members,
We could certainly do with a few more active participants! :huh:
Could it perhaps be down to how user-friendly the forum software is?
What do you think?
Best regards, Jean-Michel
cfb_de
Hello Jean-Michel,
On the one hand, this is probably because this forum hasn’t been around for very long and is still finding its feet.
On the other hand, it’s one of many forums on the ‘market’ and is competing with others.
Thirdly, at least in my case, I don’t write just for the sake of writing, but only when I feel I have something to say. I imagine this is the case for everyone, which, with few participants, naturally results in few posts.
And finally, I don’t consider Mirko’s proposed philosophy—of running a public web forum exclusively for one’s own customers and, for the most part, promoting one’s own products—to be particularly appropriate. A forum operator who is a competitor of FOTOIMPEX – and on whose forums I have been posting for some time – does things differently and, in my opinion, better. There, the participants themselves point out that advertising for Bren*** or others isn’t really welcome, and the operator regularly writes that he doesn’t mind at all if other providers (including FOTOIMPEX) are mentioned.
Perhaps that is why there are significantly more contributors there, despite the forum software being less powerful and the fact that the forum is accessible exclusively via the company’s homepage (and not indirectly via the ‘misrepresentation of facts’ at fotolaborforum.de). There are now regular in-person meet-ups for forum members there.
In my opinion, it’s certainly not down to the software’s user-friendliness. Anyone who can’t get to grips with the IPS board should go back to pen and paper.
Just my
Gast
Hi Jean Michel,
Hmm, that’s interesting.
What exactly do you find complicated?
Sure, it’s a bit confusing at first because of all the features, but this database’s performance is truly exceptional.
The email notifications alone are brilliant, and the search functions are absolutely vital.
It’s a shame no one’s organised a poll yet.
I’m really waiting for someone to post a picture of themselves and start a poll to see who thinks it’s good or bad (so it should be a proper poll, e.g. is the left side better chosen or the right).
No other software does that.
I do admit, though, that I’ve been a bit lazy with the translations lately.
Is the English a problem for anyone?
Regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hi Franz,
Hold on, you’ve got that wrong. The forum isn’t EXCLUSIVELY intended for our products and customers. I didn’t say that.
So let me tell you what our initial motivation was for setting up this forum:
We receive between 10 and 100 emails every day, which repeatedly contain the same questions in slightly different forms. We’d hoped that this flood could somehow be reduced if people discussed these questions publicly on the forum. That way, you can first check whether someone else has already asked the same questions. After all, consultancy costs do get passed on in the prices.
In this form, the forum is already working quite well. It’s growing all the time and I’m amazed by the quality of the questions and answers.
I don’t actually want as many questions here as there are in other forums. I think a nice, small forum that deals exclusively with analogue photography and smelly-smelly chemical stuff is better than one where you have to pick out the darkroom questions from between ‘digital SLR cameras’ and ‘what is medium format’.
In that respect, as the volume increases, there will probably be more moderation here too.
With this forum software, for example, you can move posts to another forum.
Things that don’t belong here (though nothing of the sort has been posted yet) may then be moved to a second forum.
But we’re open to everything! Hey, we’re discussing the future of this forum right now.
All feedback is welcome. I’m not God, and if you all want something different from what I’ve come up with, then let’s have a chat about it!
We don’t delete posts just because we don’t like them.
Of course, anyone is free to write about Phototec and Amoloco Chemie, or about Nova or Brenner, without us kicking it out.
But if it says: “Amoloco is much better than A49. That old GDR stuff is technically outdated anyway, have a look at www.andererLaboranbieter.de”, then that’s far too general, advertising for someone else and, besides, nonsense, because it’s neither wrong nor right. That sort of thing goes.
I’m absolutely delighted that all posts so far have been of a really high standard. Especially in the US, where we also regularly follow forums, there’s often such rubbish that it blows your mind.
In fact, I’ve only deleted something ONCE, because I thought it was important for customers to realise that it was misinformation, that WE no longer offer film clips and that they’re back in stock now.
I only did that once they were back in stock. Weeks later.
I had to act quickly because it was the end of the working day and I couldn’t find that ‘move one down’ function. That’s also why I wasn’t logged in.
By the way, our forum can only be accessed via our company website.
If you type in our “easier-to-remember” address “Fotolaborforum.de”, you’ll end up on the FOTOIMPEX homepage and have to click again.
For a while, this wasn’t the case by mistake due to an automatic redirect that wasn’t supposed to happen, but it was changed weeks ago.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘misrepresentation of facts’ here.
In any case, the FOTOIMPEX logo is clearly displayed in the top left corner, the whole forum is called ‘Fotolaborforum powered by FOTOIMPEX’, and it’s also in the Explorer bar. I haven’t found any other places in the software where we’re mentioned yet. But I’m open to suggestions if you know of any ;-)
You lot always get so worked up. “The worst kind”, “misrepresentation of the facts” – are we in a courtroom here, just because a couple of lines got taken out??
It costs nothing to ask if something needs changing!
So PEACE and GOOD LIGHT!
Mirko :huh:
cfb_de
Hello Mirko,
The forum isn’t EXCLUSIVELY intended for our products and customers.
But I’m sure I wasn’t the only one who got that impression. Because I (and I’m sure I’m not alone in this) specifically don’t want to see comments like
‘Non-customers don’t discuss things here’
as meaning that non-customers simply do not discuss things here. But well, you’ve now made that absolutely clear once and for all.
So let me tell you what our initial motivation was for setting up this forum:
[... snip ...] I like that too, otherwise I wouldn’t have registered here. However, I do see that even moderator interventions should be carried out with a certain degree of tact. Here, for example, another post from you saying ‘that’s not true, we do have that’ would have been quite enough. Deleting posts should be the absolute exception and, especially in a web forum where all sorts of people hang out, should be justified. The forum operator of a parallel forum handles this with great success: participants get their flak from other forum users; in the two and a half years I’ve been posting there, just three posts (out of a volume many times that of here) have been deleted, one of them at the author’s express request.
But if it says: [...] That sort of thing gets deleted.
Why on earth? An author like that is already getting a telling-off from the others. Just assume that the forum users can behave themselves and that everyone here is aware of *who* pays for, runs and is liable for this fun.
that WE no longer offer film clips and that they’re back now.
I only did that once they were back. Weeks later.
Exactly. And that was clumsy. It would have been better to write *straight away* that the clips were coming back and leave the lecture out. Then the justified reaction would have been: “Great, Mirko really does care.” The impression that has now been created points rather in the opposite direction. Weeks later. Anyone who stumbles across this now gets the impression that the big, bad FOTOIMPEXers censor everything they don’t like straight away. Whether the original post was rubbish is of no interest to them at first.
And why something has to be done quickly weeks later is something my project manager’s brain just can’t wrap its head around either.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘presenting false facts’.
Perhaps I put that a bit too strongly. But what I meant was this: if, as a web surfer, I click on a ‘speaking’ link and it tells me it points to a forum, then I don’t want to end up on a company’s website and have to click again. Especially as the loading time of the company’s site isn’t exactly ISDN-friendly.
I actually thought the idea of “fotolaborforum” and the direct accessibility was brilliant. It’s easy to remember, the operator’s name sticks nicely in your mind, and anyone who lands on your company site is happy to click through from there.
That set your forum apart in a very positive way from all the others I’ve come across so far. Unfortunately, however, you’ve now decided to go all out with the advertising.
Are we in a courtroom here, just because a couple of lines slipped out??
Even worse: in the pillory of the WWW. There, you’re guilty even before the written charge ;-)
Don’t take it so hard, everything will sort itself out. Have a lovely Sunday!
Best regards,
Franz
cfb_de
P.S.: Apart from the fact that I think it’s absolutely brilliant that you’re maintaining/reading/administering the forum on a Sunday rather than during normal business hours!
Gast
:angry: :angry:
...So you can just laugh off a couple of lines?!
It reminds me of Nazi or Stasi practices.
The idiot I gave the tip to didn’t even say thank you. I would have lent him my splitter too, if he hadn’t been able to find one.
I am deeply disappointed in Mirko Bädecker, and will never buy anything from FOTOIMPEX again!
It’s just a run-of-the-mill shop after all.
Bye – Dieter
Gast
Dieter,
Does this belong in this thread? Have a look at the title. And forget about the splinter business – I don’t think it’s of general interest :-)
Bye!!!!
Jean-Michel
Gast
Franz,
By “Non-customers don’t discuss things here”, I meant that anyone discussing us on this forum has found their way there themselves, rather than because the forum itself is so well-known that we’re getting any promotional benefit or anything like that from it.
I thought the direct link was better too, but unfortunately the software is programmed in such a complicated way that we haven’t managed to integrate it into our site properly.
I mean, if someone asks in the forum where they can still buy suitable lenses for Meopta and then someone from another country has to reply that they can get them there, then obviously something hasn’t worked out. They really should have realised that we don’t just have lenses but also accessories like circuit boards for old Meos.
On the other hand, you did complain that it should be obvious that this isn’t a 100% independent forum. So what should we do?
Do you have any suggestions?
Regards,
Mirko
Gast
...I’d almost forgotten: what about our website’s loading time?
We’re actually with Schlund und Partner, a very good hosting provider – though not exactly cheap.
We use DSL 1500 in both offices and, naturally, don’t notice any delays.
The link to the forum is a plain text link.
We’ve added these text links specifically so that the page loads faster whilst the images are still loading.
Is it still taking a long time?
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Hi everyone,
To be honest, I don’t really get all the fuss. Quite apart from the fact that I still don’t know what a ‘filmsplitter’ is actually for. But I’ve seen that it’s in the new catalogue.
I mainly visit the site because the traffic isn’t too heavy, so it’s easy to get around. I’m happy to accept that some questions might go unanswered (see my question about Fomatol developers). However, the answers have always been helpful and relevant.
I didn’t get the impression that it was just customers hanging around here either. I myself order from FOTOIMPEX relatively rarely, simply because I have other sources of supply. But I do follow FOTOIMPEX’s activities very closely, because they keep adding interesting products to their range that aren’t available everywhere else. What really annoyed me, though, was the business with the link. It was simply more convenient to access the forum directly via the address from the photo lab forum, and it didn’t look like an advert, along the lines of ‘before you enter the forum, you absolutely must pop over to our site first’. On the other hand, I’m not always on my own computer when I’m browsing the forum, so one less click and a direct link is definitely better.
As for the advertising, I haven’t found any. And the link to 8x11, where I bought my film winder after getting a tip, is surely still there.
I get the impression that lots of people often pop into the forum, but only say something when they actually have something to say. In any case, I’ve never read anyone writing that this or that developer is rubbish, but rather they’ve always just shared their own experiences with perhaps different combinations and said, ‘This is how I do it, I’m happy with it; if you like, you can give it a go too.’ And that’s what we all actually want, isn’t it?
Regards, Sven.
Urnes
P.S.: I’ve forgotten to log in again. It’s one of those things where it’s sometimes hard to tell who’s writing what if you forget to log in, get carried away with enthusiasm, and then later it just says ‘guest’. :-))
Hi Mirko,
By the way, the loading times are acceptable even with an analogue modem. All the more reason to pop in more often.
Regards, Sven.
Gast
Hi Mirko,
It’s not that I find the forum software too complicated for me. You do say that the software is quite complex, so it could be that potential forum users might find it a bit of a struggle...
It’s certainly a good programme, but perhaps a bit of an ‘overkill’ for this purpose here, with all those options???
Greetings from Switzerland
Jean-Michel
Gast
Hi Sven,
Unfortunately, the direct link is necessary because otherwise we can’t get the forum to fit into our frames.
It’s probably possible to sort it out somehow, but none of us here are clever enough to do it.
I’ve changed it for now.
You’ll first be taken to a page that only contains the link to the forum (no adverts).
If we manage to sort it out, we’ll set up an automatic redirect as well.
For those who don’t just post in the forum but also want to order something or quickly check the development table, it gets very complicated if the frames aren’t in place.
By the way, you’re absolutely right. It’s never been said here that any developer is rubbish.
But in some other forums, things get pretty heated, and we didn’t want that here.
Less “my personal opinion”, more facts.
So, if possible, we’d be delighted ;-)
After all, the forum is meant to be something of a knowledge base for “posterity”.
We might even move particularly interesting replies to a “specialist” forum after a while, where there’s less content and you can find things more quickly.
That’s sort of what I always had in mind when I launched this forum.
There’s so much knowledge out there about analogue photography, and with every darkroom a “veteran” closes down, a bit of it is lost.
If we could manage to ‘capture’ some of it beforehand, that would be brilliant.
Best regards,
Mirko
PS: You need film splitters to separate the double-exposed Double-8 film, turn it round and stick it back together.
Fomatol? What exactly did you want to know?
Gast
Sven,
Actually, the automatic redirection only works if you have JavaScript enabled.
Otherwise, you’ll have to click one more time.
Best regards,
Mirko
Urnes
Hello Mirko,
I had the following question regarding Fomatol:
Hello,
I found a few packets of Fomatol H and Fomatol M whilst tidying up. I think it’s a positive developer. I bought the packets in the Czech Republic years ago, thinking it was toner. My Czech isn’t very good. But perhaps someone can help me out and tell me what Fomatol is all about.
I think the idea of a knowledge base is pretty good. It’s also an area where you can just have a quick search. Lots of tips or facts simply get lost in the sometimes meaningless titles of the threads, and whenever I find something interesting, I always wonder where I should copy it to in case I actually need it later. Besides, it would also solve your actual problem, namely having something like an FAQ section that you can refer people to. I’m thinking specifically of the thread about the Rodenstock lens and the adapter for the Meos. Things like that are always very complex and really ought to be documented somehow, for the next person who encounters the problem.
What else comes to mind off the top of my head is the following:
You offer gears and racks for old Meos. It would be great if there were also an online instruction manual on how to fit these parts. If you ask nicely, I’m sure you’d get something from Meopta – they must have exploded views available. It would be lovely if I could use them to stabilise my Magnifax a bit. But without instructions, I’m not really keen to have a go at it.
Regards, Sven.
Gast
Sven,
Unfortunately, Foma stopped manufacturing them 13 years ago, and the company that carried on competing with Foma has also gone out of business.
I’d throw the lot away before I ruin the negatives.
Unfortunately, I can’t help you off the top of my head.
We only have racks for the new Meos, I’m afraid.
The old ones don’t have racks fitted.
Fitting them is very simple. Take off the scale, remove three screws, fit the new rack, and you’re done.
Gears: always buy two; they’re slotted together and simply slotted into place.
Loosen the two screws on the spring plate and everything comes off.
Very, very simple. An exploded view is much more confusing.
Which camera do you need them for?
Regards,
Mirko
micha
Hi Mirko and everyone else here. A forum like this just takes a bit of time to get going. The loading times are quick enough even with my modem, and the software works fine too. The answers I’ve received so far to my simple questions have mostly been quick and to the point. I check various forums almost every day. I’m just in the learning phase at the moment. I like your layout best. So chin up and keep it up
Best regards,
Micha from dd
cfb_de
Hello Mirko,
“It’s not as if non-customers are discussing things here” ...
you’ve already made that clear. However, I, at least, didn’t find this forum via your homepage, but via Google. And that gave me the direct link that was valid at the time.
On the Meo matter: That’s certainly unfortunate. But purely from a customer’s point of view, it’s much easier to post a question on the forum than to first read the catalogue or even trawl through a website that might still be unfamiliar.
If something like this happens again, I’d pull myself together if I were you, write a strongly worded email to the competitor
and post in the forum where the item can be found on your site. The nice gentleman from the parallel universe does the same, for example. It works well and ensures that such offers hardly ever appear there.
The tightrope walk regarding the forum’s lack of independence is a fine one... Just let things run their course for a while; a lot of it sorts itself out. The idea of a knowledge base is good. Perhaps in a separate forum where none of us are allowed to post directly, and you can put things that seem important (you know what you’re always asked via email) in there.
Regarding loading times: I was referring to the time it takes for the page to load at my home on a single ISDN line. It simply takes a long time (about 20 seconds). In principle, I don’t really mind, as I don’t visit your site hundreds of times a day :-)
BTW: Do you have Anaret-50 in stock again? I’d be interested in an M23.5 (second-hand). I’ve dropped mine.
Best regards,
Franz
Gast
Hello Franz,
Anarets (i.e. Labotare) will be back in stock on Friday.
We might also get a few special offers from Meopta again.
Unfortunately, we no longer deal in second-hand goods in the traditional sense.
The German government has stipulated in the ‘Retail Shattering Act’ (amendment to the Mail Order Act and extension of the guarantee to second-hand goods) that only on eBay, without a two-year warranty and with outrageous postal return costs (currently no less than 20
