Gast
Hi everyone,
Now that Mirko has brought Vario Classic back into the range and is promoting it as ‘one of the last papers to produce a red cast in the lith process’, I’m almost tempted to break my rule of ‘I can’t be bothered with the hassle of baryta’.
Unfortunately, Wolfgang Moersch now lists the highlight colour for Vario Classic as yellow-yellow/beige in his developer chart.
So what’s the deal?
Thanks for sharing your experiences
Martin
uworischki
:o
Well, why not give LP’s Lith set a go – now called ‘Superlith’ – I’ve managed to get that exact shade on Wephota Brilliant, and I don’t think the difference between the papers is that great.
uwe
Roman
And who actually makes this paper? Efke? (Surely they have a fixed-grade baryta paper in their range...)
uworischki
I reckon it’s all down to Forte (see also Classicpan or the Orwopan 100 roll film); otherwise, there are hardly any others who still produce it at reasonable prices. Just niche products, really.
MirkoBoeddecker
Vario Classic isn’t made by Forte, and Wephota Brilliant is identical to Classic Arts.
The red colour is included in the Moersch Master Set, provided the right mix is used.
There’s even an example image on our website that Wolfgang took himself:
http://www.fotoimpex.de/Technik/MACOLith/M...oerschlith.html
The portrait of the girl with clay on her face, on the left.
As I said, that was Vario Classic plus Moersch.
Superlith plus Classic Arts actually turns out more of a brownish-reddish colour.
I’m surprised by uwe’s post.
We’ll have to give it a go.
Mirko
MirkoBoeddecker
I’ve just found this under ‘suitable photographic papers’ in Wolfgang’s original lithography guide for the Master Set:
FOTOIMPEX Classic Vario
This paper also lithographs extremely quickly, with a pronounced grain.
Recommended dilution: 1+10; high sulphite and bromide addition is required
Highlights: yellow to bright red
Shadows: deep black, with a sharp, fine grain extending into the mid-tones
Lithpoint: very fast with rapid development
Toning: excellent toning properties with all techniques; this is where its qualities really come into their own. The image impression, previously slightly ‘dusty’ due to the high grain, gives way to a luminous colour. Multiple toning processes such as selenium/gold or selenium/sulphur (alkaline thiourea toner) are highly recommended.
Mirko
WolfgangMoersch
Hi Mirko,
That was quick – well done :-)
OK, I ran the emulator again yesterday; you never know if anything’s changed in the meantime. Minor differences between individual batches are inevitable, but they’re hardly noticeable in ‘normal prints’. Very few users are likely to be aware of this; I just want to remind you in case something at the lithography lab doesn’t work exactly as usual at some point.
Now to the results. Out of curiosity and self-interest, I tested the Vario both with Master Lith and in the new ready-to-use developer (from now on called Easylith for easier distinction), and my assessment hasn’t changed. With minimal extra effort, almost any desired colour can be coaxed out of the paper. With plenty of light and long development times in thin, or heavily slowed-down, solutions, three-dimensional image tones are possible, but I find anything that takes significantly longer than 10 minutes per print a bit of a faff.
It’s better to tone all the prints from a session, and that’s where this paper really comes into its own.
As a service for you and your customers, I’ve posted samples with instructions on my site today.
Feel free to copy them and incorporate them here on your site.
moersch-photochemie >Instructions >Know-how > Lith Lesson 3
If the paper remains in the range, I’ll continue with blue and green.
Regards
wm
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Wolfgang,
The paper can be re-cast at any time.
It’s all a question of demand.
At the moment, we still have plenty of 8x10-inch and smaller sizes, as well as 40x50.
Do you need anything else to try out?
Best regards,
Mirko
Gast
Right lads,
thanks for the info. After the last few stitches in the basement, this leads to another problem: where do you get all that light from???
It wouldn’t really bother me if I had to develop for 15 minutes, but to print a (thin) KB negative onto 24x30 paper, I’m already looking at around 10 minutes with an f/4 aperture and a 1+10 mixture. And with Vario-Classic, a 1+10 mix isn’t even close to being rich, but rather a light yellow-beige-brown. Despite using Starter F.
Is it down to the enlarger? A 138 Durst, yes, with a 130/85 condenser as specified, but 250 watts instead of 150. Then there’s the option of using my old 1.4/50 Nikkor to gain 3 stops, but to get a 1+20–1+25 mixture, those are long gone.
I already had my doubts as to whether the developer was any good at all, but 1 sheet of Fomatone MG as above turned bright red (well, there’s still a slight brown cast). Just with the brown typical of warm tones instead of black.
Regards
Martin
WolfgangMoersch
Hmm, I’m really at a loss here. Even with negative densities, I rarely go over a minute. My lowest-light enlarger is also a 138 with a condenser, but it’s been converted to an Ilford mixing head with a Heiland split-grade filter, so it’s hardly comparable. For 35mm up to 6x6, I use the Dunco, a real gem when it comes to light control; with white light, the exposure times at f/4 are usually between 20 and 50 seconds. It’s similar with the 4x5 LPL, but when I switch to the Durst, I lose at least one stop.
I would have thrown in the towel long ago at three to four minutes; that’s when the Schwarzschild law strikes mercilessly.
Is there perhaps a filter in there? What does the projection look like without a negative? What exposure times are standard for conventional prints?
Gast
Hello Mr Moersch,
A maximum of one minute? That’s what I dream of too. Logically, everything’s fine. The larger the scale, the slower it is; warm-tone and bromide papers are about 2–3 f-stops slower than standard papers like Work or Kodak (though I’ve stopped using them, as Polykaltone RC is cheaper and it keeps the shelf tidy). Normal prints take between 2 and, well, let’s say 40 seconds (filtered; the majority between 10 and 20).
I also find the 40 seconds (or sometimes 1 minute if there’s high density) to get a 24x30 print from an 8x11 (Minox) negative quite bearable.
Filter cost about 1 stop, from 4 stops onwards about 2 stops – all fine.
Unfortunately, for rich image tones I often need about 1 stop more than stated in your table; Fomatone still works reasonably well then, but you already specify VarioClassic at 1+10 with +4 stops. And then, for example, from 20 seconds, I’m immediately in the darkroom.
I don’t really want to move away from the 138; any ideas on how to tweak it?
Regards
Martin Pistor
uworischki
Oh dear... Mirko’s right – with LP-lith, the colour leans more towards reddish-brown...
I got the really red tones with Moersch 5.
Uwe
