Klaus_H
Hello to Berlin / Bad Saarow!
I have now performed exposure on a few rolls of HR-50 with an RG715 filter and developed the films.
The film is excellent for IR photography.
Unfortunately, the material is currently ‘only’ available as 35mm film.
My question:
Is there already a roadmap for making the film material available in 120 format?
There is similar material available, but it lacks either fine grain or clean packaging.
I would be delighted if the IR HR-50 were available in 120 format as early as this spring.
Best regards,
Klaus
TeamADOX
Klaus_H wrote:
Hello to Berlin / Bad Saarow!
I have now performed exposure on a few rolls of HR-50 with an RG715 filter and developed the films.
The film is excellent for IR photography.
Unfortunately, the material is currently ‘only’ available as 35mm film.
My question:
Is there already a roadmap for making the film material available in 120 format?
There is similar material available, but it lacks either fine grain or clean packaging.
I would be delighted if the IR HR-50 were available in 120 format as early as this spring.
Best regards,
Klaus
Hello Klaus,
We are working flat out on the roll film. We don’t want to make any promises, but the aim is at least for it to be available in time for the current “IR season”.
Team ADOX
www.adox.de
www.facebook.com/ADOXPHOTO
www.instagram.com/ADOXPHOTO
Klaus_H
Hello, ADOX team
It has now been two summers since I first enquired, and there is still no sign of the IR-HR50 in 120 format.
2020 has been a special year due to the pandemic....
Nevertheless, my question is:
Does ADOX still intend to produce a 120 IR-HR50 in the foreseeable future, or has this project been shelved?
Best regards,
Klaus
KlausWehner
Hi Klaus,
Perhaps I can offer you some reassurance (without wanting to put you off).
I’m sure that an HR-50 roll film in Bad Saarow is still on the agenda.
But I’m sure you’re also aware that there are other projects in the pipeline.
All these projects demand scarce resources, and always on a far larger scale than anyone had imagined at the start.
So some things simply have to be spread out over time. It’s not ideal... but often there’s no other way.
In some areas, there’s also a reliance on third parties.
That doesn’t make things any easier.
One current problem is the protective paper. We keep running into issues here due to a reaction with the emulsion.
Obtaining a suitable protective paper is probably not easy at the moment.
The assembly of the roll films requires a great deal of manual work, which must be carried out in complete darkness.
Finding reliable staff for this is certainly difficult.
But then the price has to be right as well.
Sometimes, it’s simply not possible to meet all the requirements at once.
That’s why no one will want to commit to a fixed deadline – even if there is an internal schedule in place.
So, please bear with us a little longer!
Best regards,
Klaus
Klaus_H
Hello Klaus,
Thank you very much for your explanation, but I am already largely familiar with these issues.
The HR-50 without Speed Boost is available under a different name as a 120 model, but its characteristic curve leaves something to be desired.
If a company possesses the technology to significantly improve speed and the characteristic curve as a unique selling point, it seems rather baffling to me why it wouldn’t secure and expand its position in this niche. There are plenty of examples in business where delays in market launch have squandered a technical lead.
If necessary, the film could also be processed by a ‘service provider’.
In any case, I am eagerly awaiting the roll film.
Best regards,
Klaus
Wolf_XL
...we could always have a word with Kodak about the issues with the backing paper – they seem to have sorted out their backing paper problem... :cool: :angel: :cool:
KlausWehner
Hi Klaus,
Yes, I realise that you (as always) are well informed.
But there are surely many others who (like us) are waiting for new products, but don’t know the background and context in such detail.
To help this group understand the reasons for the delays, I’ve replied to your enquiry in a bit more detail.
The Speed Boost technology is certainly a unique selling point.
The additional technical effort involved is not insignificant – but it mustn’t have a major impact on the film’s price.
So it could be that this is a technologically innovative product, but one that generates very little profit.
But that is pure speculation.
The fact is that the market is very narrow. An economically misguided decision can have fatal consequences.
Overall, I would be delighted if, in addition to Kodak, Ilford and Foma, there were also the technological expertise in Germany to manufacture and package analogue films and photographic papers.
My respect and appreciation go to those who are attempting this under difficult conditions.
Thank you and best regards
Klaus
[hr]
Hi Wolf,
I am not aware of whether Kodak now has its own secure protective paper for roll films.
If that is the case, however, they will not be very keen to share it with their competitors.
The market is tight, and there’s a lot at stake.
Perhaps I’m being a bit naive, or am I overlooking something serious?
But the problem should actually be solvable.
The requirements for the paper are: thin, flexible, very strong and light-tight.
The requirements for the coating (print): chemically inert with respect to the emulsion.
But the devil is always in the detail.
What looks so simple from the outside can quickly turn out to be an unexpected challenge.
But one thing is clear: it won’t work without a new protective paper.
Best regards,
Klaus
Wolf_XL
...Kodak must have been experimenting a bit there – that’s the only way I can explain the difference in the backing paper between the Tmax 100 and the Tmax 400. With the 400, it actually still feels and looks like paper, whereas with the 100, the backing paper looks almost like a glossy plastic film...
KlausWehner
Thanks, Wolf, for the information.
That’s exactly what I’d been thinking: laminating the paper with a (PE) film.
But I’m not quite sure how the labelling could be done.
How did Kodak solve this?
Best regards,
Klaus
Wolf_XL
...it could perhaps be three-layered – the first emulsion black and light-proof, the second emulsion with the text, and the third emulsion transparent, to ensure a minimum thickness so that there are no problems with film transport or the counter...
KlausWehner
Hello Wolf,
In principle, there are a number of possible solutions.
Perhaps we could manage entirely without paper and use just a film.
In that case, dimensional accuracy might be an issue.
We’d need to ensure that the wound film actually seals the edges of the take-up spool completely, preventing any light from getting through.
But it does need to remain affordable, of course.
On closer inspection, it is a bit tricky...
And that is only a small part of the overall problem.
Best regards,
Klaus
TeamADOX
Klaus_H wrote:
Hello to Berlin / Bad Saarow!
I have now performed exposure on a few rolls of HR-50 with an RG715 filter and developed the films.
The film is excellent for IR photography.
Unfortunately, the material is currently ‘only’ available as 35mm film.
My question:
Is there already a roadmap for making the film material available in 120 format?
There is similar material available, but it lacks either fine grain or clean packaging.
I would be delighted if the IR HR-50 were available in 120 format as early as this spring.
Best regards,
Klaus
Hello Klaus,
There was a roadmap for roll film. Unfortunately, however, it has been completely derailed by a series of unfortunate events. Firstly, the Covid-19 crisis has led to massive setbacks on several levels. These significant negative effects are still ongoing. Furthermore, the engineer responsible for this area has been on long-term sick leave. Finding a replacement for such specialists is also extremely difficult. Therefore, it would be completely irresponsible to publish a specific timetable at this stage. The project has not been halted, but unfortunately we will generally not be able to offer roll film in the short term. We ask for your understanding.
Klaus_H
Thank you for your frank words!
Best regards,
Klaus
Klaus_H
Hello ADOX team!
This thread is a bit old, but the question is still the same.
Will the HR-50 be available as 120 film this year (2022)?
The infrared season is just around the corner and we need to decide on our film choice.
Best regards,
Klaus
MirkoBoeddecker
Hi Klaus,
Unfortunately, the answer remains the same: once we’ve managed to overcome the technical hurdles, we’ll start stocking roll film.
As soon as we know when that will be, we’ll let you know – though in theory that’s almost unnecessary, as the roll film will be in the shop on that very day and you’ll be able to see it for yourselves.
It’s not really a matter of planning it or making firm commitments.
It’s simply very complex, and due to the many additional burdens caused by the pandemic (shop closure in Berlin, sick leave, quarantines, etc.), we have hardly any spare profits left to reinvest.
But of course we’re also hoping for the season!
Best regards,
Mirko
Klaus_H
Hello Mirko,
Thank you very much for your reply.
The issues surrounding the pandemic, supply chains and the current situation in the East affect us all and should be a matter of concern to every thinking person.
Please regard my enquiry as an expression of my intention to purchase.
As there is not (yet) an HR-50 IR available in 120 format, I will probably have to do without the benefits of ADOX’s “Speed Boost” technology and work with the “basic material”.
Best regards,
Klaus
MirkoBoeddecker
Mirko Boeddecker wrote
: Hello Klaus,
Unfortunately, the answer remains the same: if we manage to overcome the technical hurdles, we’ll be stocking roll films.
As soon as we know when that will be, we’ll let you know – though in principle that’s almost unnecessary, as the roll films will be in the shop on that very day and you’ll be able to see them for yourselves.
It’s not really a matter of planning it or making firm commitments.
It’s simply very complex, and due to the many additional burdens caused by the pandemic (shop closure in Berlin, sick leave, quarantines, etc.), we have hardly any spare profits left to reinvest.
But of course we’re also hoping for the season!
Best regards,
Mirko
Hello Klaus,
I’ve just dug out this thread to give a quick update on the roll film situation. We’ve had some good results over the last four weeks and are cautiously optimistic that we’ll be able to start reeling again soon. But now for the bad news: the HR-50 is still missing the speed boost, so unfortunately the first roll films will be CHS 100 II and CMS 20.
Best regards,
Mirko
Klaus_H
Thanks, Mirko!
Even though the HR 50 can’t yet be produced in 120 format, it’s positive news that things are moving forward with roll film.
Good luck!
Klaus
k-g
If you can load the CHS 100 II with 120 film, you shouldn’t use the word ‘unfortunately’. Good news, thanks
Karl-Gustaf
[hr]
k-g wrote
: If you can use a reel to wind the CHS 100 II as 120 film, you shouldn’t use the word ‘unfortunately’. Good news, thanks.
Karl-Gustaf
MirkoBoeddecker
We currently have no issues with the release paper. What isn’t working is the slitting of the films and the winding process itself, during which the stickers are also applied. We also lack the ability to slit the release paper from large jumbo rolls. However, this won’t become a pressing issue until later.
We have a machine and cutting shafts for this, but no space to set them up. The issue of the stickers also remains unresolved (in the long term), as I believe the release paper can no longer be produced in the EU. The machines need to be retrofitted here, which is extremely costly.
We have already organised the most flexible and smallest machines available, but this used to be an industry and now we are operating at a small-scale production level. Labour costs in Germany have been heading in only one direction for years, and that is steeply upwards, a trend currently being fuelled even further by election campaign handouts.
Running a team of three people for a month costs around €15,000, including all continued wage payments and ancillary costs.
If I factor all the start-up costs and the skyrocketing wage costs from August onwards (minimum wage gap trap) into the packaging costs, we’d have to charge around €3.50 per film just for the spooling alone.
Fortunately, that’s almost feasible with colour film, but we don’t have any ;)
With black and white, however, it’s more of a pipe dream...
Best regards,
Mirko
