highscore
Hi everyone
I’m currently testing the new Fomapan for myself.
I’m currently processing it in my standard developer, Fomadon R09, and I have to say:
It performs really poorly in it!
Three tests at 1+50 yielded a density of just 0.54 in Zone 5, even at 22 minutes (60/3/60 agitation).
In the three subsequent attempts at 1+25, even at 12 minutes the densities came out too high at 0.72. My target is 0.65.
I’ll carry on with the tests! But it doesn’t seem to be a good combination at the moment. Let’s see what the image looks like once the densities are right.
Which combination do you recommend?
I also have Foma Retro Spezial, Perceptol, D76, Foma LQR + LQN at home.
Question: can Retro Spezial also be used as a one-shot developer? In its standard form, I won’t reach the specified 25 films before it goes off.
Regards
Highscore
Olivinyl
Hello,
?
With a 1+50 developer, you achieved a density of 0.54 in Zone 5; I therefore assume that you used the zone slider to shift the density of 0.10 to Zone 1. What ISO did you use?
Why don’t you post the density values for the 1+50 and 1+25 development of zones 1–10? What ASA value did you use for the Zone 5 exposure?
By the values 0.72 and 0.65, you surely mean the gamma. Are you working in hybrid or are you enlarging?
?
The Retro Spezial developer is a ‘one-shot’ developer, isn’t it? So 4 35mm films (250ml per film) or 2x 120 films (500ml per film) per litre of prepared solution.
Rodinal is, of course, the classic choice and certainly a good option. D76 is also a good developer.
?
But before you’ve tried all the developers and wasted 30.5 metres of Foma Retropan on test exposures, first measure out the Rodinal combination properly and get to grips with it.
As mentioned before, why not show us your measurements and then we’ll see...
?
(I had to be told myself a few weeks ago that Rodinal in a 1+50 dilution stops building up density after about 20 minutes. When you tip the bottle, oxygen mixes into the developer and it oxidises quite quickly. I couldn’t get a decent density on a Kentmere 400 in Rodinal 1+50, so I used 1+25 and it worked!)
?
Best regards, Oliver
?
Edit: I’ve just read that you can actually develop up to 36 metres of 135 film or 25 x 36 films in one litre of Retro Spezial solution... but there’s no reason why you couldn’t use it as a ‘one-shot’ solution.
highscore
Hi everyone
Hi Oliver
Well, I’m (unfortunately) not quite as professional as you might think.
I haven’t quite got the hang of how to work out the actual speed from the density values yet.
I take a pragmatic approach: for example, when I use Foma 200, I set everything to 160 ASA. After all, the general consensus is that it doesn’t reach 21 DIN.
In any case, I can then produce good prints without any filters at all. So my process seems to work well for this particular film/developer combination. (The FP4+ works just as well in Fomadon R09)
In any case, I’ve largely stuck to the ‘one film, one developer’ recommendation for beginners so far. But now I’d like to make the most of the extra stop or so that the 320 might offer me.
No, I don’t work in hybrid mode – perhaps later.
I’ve photographed my test series for you.
I switched from 1+50 to 1+25 because I still hadn’t got a decent result after 22 minutes. This takes into account the assumed activity limit of around 20 minutes for Rodinal and its clones.
Also, until further notice, I’m only taking 5 test photos so as not to waste so much film.
So, with the Retro Spezial under one-shot conditions, I arrive at a calculated 40 ml per film. That would be 1+7.5 for 300 ml, or better still, a slightly stronger 1+6, which works out at 50 ml.
In any case, I’ll finish off the experiment with R09.
And repeat it with Retro Spezial One Shot. Perhaps also in the standard version.
To find my favourite.
Regards, highscore
Wolf_XL
... I’d be interested to know what you’re hoping to get out of the film, and why you’re going to all this trouble... By the way – for a film with a speed of over 100 ISO, a Rodinal derivative would only be my second choice anyway – unless I’m a fan of... well, let’s say “accentuated grain”...
zensusa
Hello,
If you’re interested, here are a few practical details from my work:
Retropan sheet film, 320 ASA in R09 one-shot/20°, rotation in Jobo CPP, 13.45 mins with 2 mins pre-rinse. Used in bright but hazy, overcast weather (exposure f 5–6)! Settings for 4x5" + split grade. Oriental warm-tone paper in LPD developer (stock, no dilution) for a ‘nostalgic’ look. This development achieves a gradient of 2–3 on the above-mentioned paper.
In sunny, cloudy conditions (contrast range f 6–7) at 200 ASA, 11 mins (otherwise as mentioned above).
In overcast, grey, rainy weather (contrast range approx. f 4–5) at 640 ISO: 19.50 mins (However, I have not yet used this combination in practice, so this is a purely theoretical value based on the above)
Incidentally, Ms [size=2]Jana Kremenakova from Foma wrote to me at the time via email regarding Retropan and Rodinal; R09 one shot or Foma’s R09:[/size]
[size=2]"...[/size]We recommend processing Retropan 320 Soft films in a Retro Special Developer.
The main advantage is the optimisation of the film’s contrast. The film will provide a wide tonal range and a soft image in the highlights.
Using other developers is not so convenient, as the image can become too flat. But it always depends on the photographer’s intention and style. So, it is worth trying...
For developing Retropan 320 Soft in Fomadon R09, we recommend the following conditions:
Retropan 320 (EI 320) – temperature 20°C, dilution (1 : 50), time 14–16 minutes (the longer the time, the higher the contrast and the higher the grain), agitation or turning over continuously for the first 30 seconds, then for the first 10 seconds every minute
Retropan 320 (EI 400) – temperature 20°C, dilution (1 : 50), time 18–20 minutes (the longer the time, the higher the contrast and the higher the grain), agitation or turning over continuously during the first 30 seconds, then for the first 10 seconds of every minute .....
... Perhaps my information will be of help :) Until then ...
Best regards
Lothar
zensusa
... Sorry, I forgot to mention that. All my comments above regarding R09 refer to 1 + 50 .....
?
Best regards
Olivinyl
Hello,
€
I’m editing my reply again, as I’ve got myself a bit tangled up. Right, let’s start again!
€
You’ve provided a whole lot of measurement values. That’s great. Have you already deducted the base fog from your figures?
That’s very important! Please give me your readings from tests 5 and 6 again. List the base fog separately and note alongside your readings whether the base fog has already been deducted or not. That’s really very important.
I saw the value 0.20 in test 6, but I have no idea whether you’ve already deducted it in tests 5 and 6!
Also state the ISO value you used for the Zone 5 exposure! That’s very important too!
€
So please post these values here in the forum again, along with the correct development times and the tilt. If necessary, re-measure the negatives!
€
I’ll take a look at them and let you know what to do next. You will then create another exposure series consisting of 10 shots in daylight (following this pattern; I’ll let you know the development time):
€
1. Zone at 3200 ASA on a grey card/cardboard/concrete wall/through matt Plexiglas, tracing paper, greaseproof paper or similar... (applies to all 10 exposures)
2. Zone at 1600 ASA
3. Zone at 800
4. Zone at 400?
5. Zone at 200
6. Zone at 100
7. Zone at 50?
8. Zone at 25
9. Zone at 12
10. Zone at 6 ASA.
€
€
Regarding Foma 200: it barely reaches 21 Din at 100 ASA in Xtol 1+1 and RHS DC 1+15, but then has a nice, almost flat curve! I didn’t even bother trying Rodinal and similar developers!
€
Best regards, Oliver
highscore
Hi everyone
Hi Wolf
What I expect from the 320.
Hmm, mainly shorter exposure times, in the evening and at night.
If I like it, it’ll become my second go-to lens alongside the 200.
I’m also hoping that Foma will release it in 120 format as well.
I prefer using 120, but I actually always have 135 with me as well.
Why Rodinal?
Well, it’s quite simple.
As someone getting back into photography, I had to settle on one developer and one film to learn with.
It could just as easily have been D76 or ID11; in any case, it had to be a classic.
Now, after developing over 100 rolls of film – I often develop two 120s and one 135 together – I’m going to start trying out other developers as well. I’ve picked up a few now.
Hi Lothar
That’s some interesting data you’ve shared there.
You seem to use mainly sheet film as well as a rotary processor.
That doesn’t really help me, of course.
But it’s very useful information for others.
Many thanks.
And now to Oliver
Next time I try, I’ll replace my current 10:30 mins with your 11 minutes.
And I’ll aim for 10 photos/zones as well.
Do you expose it based on 200 ASA? And why?
Regards
Highscore
highscore
Hi everyone,
I’ve now finished my series of tests.
I ended up in Zone 5 at 0.62. The curve is attached.
That’s enough testing for me for now, for Fomadon R09.
I’ll do the fine-tuning by photographing the first films with grey cards.
Besides, I’m now primarily interested in the prints.
The next test will be the Foma Classic Special developer: should I use the stock solution or OneShot? What do you think?
Regards,
Marcus
Olivinyl
... because the film definitely isn’t 320 or 400 ISO! I’d estimate it at around 200 to 250 ISO when developed in Rodinal.
You’ve included a nice chart, but you haven’t specified the development time or the ISO equivalent for Zone 5.
€
If you’ve followed my (exposure) guidelines (i.e. exposure for Zone 5 at 200 ISO), then according to your measurement the film has exactly 200 ISO – as indicated by the density of 0.11 in Zone 1!
However, developing for longer won’t magically increase the film’s ISO sensitivity. As your curve dips downwards at Zone 4, I’d suggest developing the next roll for 1:30 or 2:00 minutes longer. I think that should do the trick.
€
Your density of 1.30 in Zone 10 is definitely a measurement error or an exposure error. Given the shape of the curve, it should be closer to 1.14–1.16.
€
Best regards, Oliver
Ewald
... because the film definitely isn’t 320 or 400 ISO! I’d estimate it at around 200 to 250 ISO when developed in Rodinal.
You’ve included a nice chart, but you haven’t specified the development time or the ISO at which Zone 5 falls.
€
If you’ve followed my (exposure) guidelines (i.e. Zone 5 exposure at 200 ISO), then according to your measurement the film has exactly 200 ISO – as indicated by the density of 0.11 in Zone 1!
However, developing for longer won’t magically increase the film’s ISO sensitivity. As your curve dips downwards at Zone 4, I’d suggest developing the next roll for 1:30 or 2:00 minutes longer. I think that should do the trick.
€
Your density of 1.30 in Zone 10 is definitely a measurement error or an exposure error. Given the shape of the curve, it should be closer to 1.14–1.16.
€
Best regards, Oliver
€
€
That’s only a gamma of 0.4, so I’d develop it for a few minutes longer. Otherwise, you’ll end up with flat images.
€
says Ewald
Wolf_XL
... well, my experience with Foma films has been rather disappointing when it comes to the stated speed – none of the Foma films I’ve used so far have achieved the stated speed with my developers (D76, Kodak TMax Developer and Rodinal). So I wouldn’t expect any miracles from the 320 in that regard either. If you want some leeway on the ‘upper end’, in my opinion there’s no getting round the 400 TMax...
highscore
Hi everyone
Oliver
Well, 200 ASA is really quite low. It wasn’t unexpected with Rodinal, though.
I immediately doubted the density of 1.30 myself; I measured it several times, but nothing changed.
Perhaps I made a mistake when setting the aperture.
Next up is Foma’s own formula. That should, hopefully, give me 320.
But first, time to take some photos!
Wolf
Yes, I do have a few Tmax rolls in the fridge.
But I don’t want to get bogged down with too many film developers.
So far, I’ve actually used Foma 100, 200, 400 as well as Ilford HP 4+ in Fomadon R09 and Caffenol.
Although I rarely use Foma 100 and 400 anymore.
Oh yes, and Washi film in the paper process by eye. (It really is my favourite exotic film)
BEST WISHES
MARCUS
Olivinyl
Hi Markus,
Are you really going to throw in the towel just before the end? Take your final test shot and develop it for 1:30 to 2:00 minutes longer – you’ll have done it before you’ve even started running through batch after batch with the next developer.
No film achieves the speed printed on the frame. HP5 and Kentmere 200 only reach 250 ASA in Rodinal... Various 100 ASA films only reach 50 to 80 ASA.
Best wishes, Oliver
highscore
OK
1+30 and 2 minutes more.
But Markus, please spell it with a C.
Otherwise, I don’t really care about the spelling
Best regards
Marcus
Olivinyl
Hi Marcus,
Why 1+30 now? That’s 1.5 to 2 minutes more time (1:30 to 2:00 minutes)!
Best wishes, Oliver
highscore
No
I didn't read it properly.
Marcus
highscore
My conclusion
The 320 doesn’t really cope well in Rodinal.
In the original Foma developer (1+5, one-shot, 14 minutes), it produces a lot of haze. (I still need to do a test print, though.)
So I’ll use up the remaining rolls and that’s it.
And I’ll move on to my next favourite, the Delta 400.
grommi
If you want a film with a beautiful grain and good durability: Fomapan 400. When it comes to grain, I don’t know of any alternative. It’s reliable, but it doesn’t really perform at ISO 400 in many developers.
highscore
Hi Grommi
?
Yes, I agree that Foma 400 is a reliable 320 ISO film.
However, the grain isn’t quite what I’m looking for.
But that usually only bothers me in 35mm format.
I mostly use the Foma 200. Pull/push works quite well with that.
(I give every Foma one stop more light.)
