AchimBauer
Hello everyone,
I’ve got a few silly questions about the CMS 20 as well.
I’ve heard that, in terms of exposure range, you can develop the CMS using Spur Modular UR New to make it equivalent to a standard film.
I’ve read something about 5–6 ASA with Spur Modular A2 – I think it’s 5 minutes.
But there’s a problem: FOTOIMPEX only offers A and B; according to the photo, it’s A1, but that’s not for CMS. Maco offers A2, but doesn’t stock CMS as roll film.
And to make things really complicated, Spur offers an A3 for the CMS.
I asked Impex, no reply; after a while, two enquiries resulted in a recommendation to use Adotech 2. I asked Spur, no reply.
So which Modular UR is the right one, and at what ISO should I develop it?
Or can you get equivalent results with Adotech 2 at 5 or 6 ISO? With what development time?
And is Adotech 2 still available? Because ADOX recommends Adotech 1 for all CMS 20 films without II, and the roll films are CMS 20 without II.
Or does it really not matter at all which Adotech I use?
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Regards, Achim
harv
The first CMS 20 is developed using Adotech.
The second using Adotech II. Currently, only second-generation films and developers are available.
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The first CMS 20 is developed using Spur Modular UR A + B.
The second in Spur Modular UR A + B new
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In terms of price, however, this is uninteresting, because the film + developer combo is significantly cheaper than buying film and Spur chemicals separately.
harv
AchimBauer
Harv, many thanks for your reply,
The problem remains that CMS 20 isn’t available as a roll film in the II version, and I can’t get an Adotech without II or an old Modular UR; with the new one, there are A1, A2 and A3 versions, and conflicting information about which is correct.
And the ADOX data sheet doesn’t specify a development time for 6 ASA, in case that would help.
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Regards, Achim
Florek
... The CMS 20 isn't available as a roll film in version II ...
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Hello Achim,
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As far as I know, the CMS 20 is available as Version II; at least, the preview image on the FOTOIMPEX Shop shows a roll film labelled "ADOX CMS 20 II PROFESSIONAL". However, I’ve only used the KB version II myself.
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http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/ADOX-CMS-20-roll film-120.html
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Best regards,
Florian
harv
You can also get the CMS 20 II here, complete with the matching Adotech II developer
http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/adox-cms-20-roll film-6er-pack-plus-eine-flasche-adotech-ii-fuer-6-filme.html
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What exactly is your problem? Have you performed the exposure of the old CMS 20 at ISO 6 and need a developer and time to put the process together?
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I’d get the Adotech II and develop the old CMS 20 as follows: 8.5 mins -20%, i.e. 7 mins at 20 degrees, agitation by tilting, acid stop bath, fix as specified for the CMS 20 II.
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For the next batch of CMS 20, get the film/developer pack linked above.
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Here are two images of the CMS 20 II in Adotech II
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AchimBauer
Hi Florek, hi Harv,
Many thanks for the info. It really is the CMS II – unfortunately, you can only see that if you zoom in on the image. I don’t know why the ‘II’ is missing from the description; with the Kb it’s in the description, which is what confused me.
Harv, I haven’t exposed a CMS at 6 ASA yet, but thanks anyway for the development tip. If anyone else could shed some light on the Spur Modular numbers, I’d be grateful, as I’d like to include the CMS in my standard set-up; I just want to squeeze a bit more out of the exposure range and am willing to sacrifice a little on speed. Because I only want to use the CMS in the Linhof, and since you’re lugging a tripod made of double-T beams around anyway, it doesn’t matter whether I’m doing an exposure for 1 or 2 hours – that’s the whole background to my enquiry.
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Regards, Achim
harv
You need Spur Modular UR new Part A + B.
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Depending on the film, these are mixed in specific proportions. Part C is not required. You can read more about this here
:
http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/images/products/media/39480_4_Produktbroschuere.pdf
CMS 20, page 2, bottom right.
AchimBauer
Hi Harv,
Unfortunately, the data sheet on the Impex website isn’t much help, as there seem to be several different ones. Since Spur can’t be reached by phone and their website strikes me as rather chaotic, I almost gave up on the whole thing, but given my positive experience with Acurol N, I kept looking.
As for mixing A and B, it’s clear: only A1, A2 or A3.
If I’m interpreting everything I’ve read correctly, A1 is for Copex Rapid; the A from Impex seems to be A1, but Impex doesn’t have Copex, if I’ve understood correctly.
A2 is for CMS 20. I can get A2 from Maco, but no CMS 20, just as I can’t from Impex, because their CMS roll films are also II, even if that isn’t obvious in the shop. One might also take A2 to be the correct A2 for CMS 20 II, were it not for the latest data sheet, which mentions an A3 and, incidentally, states that it is for all CMS 20 films to be developed in Adotech II, i.e. CMS 20 II.
I can only get the A3 from Spur, where I’ve now also figured out how to buy from them, as they don’t have a proper online shop.
Based on my research, I’m going to give it a go with CMS 20 II 6 ASA and A3; the developer for 20 films will cost me around 45 euros including postage, but it’s supposed to last for 4 years – 2 euros per film – though transparency development is not exactly cheap these days either.
Perhaps by the end of the year I’ll have the first usable results and will report back then; or perhaps the 45 euros would have been better spent elsewhere, in which case I might not report anything.
Regards, Achim
P.S.: Your photos are lovely.
userid0
Hello everyone,
Last Friday I developed the first CMS20II from the set with Adotech II for a friend.
The film was exposed at ISO 12. Now I have two questions:
1. The data sheet states that when using 300 ml, 16.5 ml of developer should also be used and the development time extended accordingly. The instructions say from 10 to 13 minutes. That is the value for ISO 20 exposure. How should one adequately extend the 8.5 minutes to compensate for the slightly lower dilution at 300ml? In my development test, I applied the 30% increase from 10 minutes to 13 minutes to the 8.5 minutes as well, resulting in a development time of 11 minutes. The results are also very good. Is this approach to extending the time correct? I just wanted to check again as it isn’t stated that way in the datasheet (or perhaps I missed it, in which case I apologise).
2. Something interesting happened with the film. The first 12 frames are completely affected by underexposure. There’s a very faint trace visible on two frames, but otherwise the base is basically clear. The frame numbers are visible, so everything’s fine. Then, from frame 13 onwards, the images are wonderful. So, as it were, all of a sudden. I can’t explain what happened there. My friend has also checked his Nikon FE2 again and shot through two test rolls of APX100 to check the exposure. Everything’s fine. So, as I said: the first 12 frames aren’t there, just a clear base. Then all the frames are perfectly there. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?
Many thanks for your help and ideas,
Walter
userid0
Hello,
Does anyone have any ideas or feedback on what I’ve written? My friend has already announced that he’s developing a second film, and I want to make sure everything is in order from a development perspective.
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I’d really appreciate it.
Thanks and best regards,
Walter
AchimBauer
Hi Walter,
I’ve got an idea!
Unfortunately, it’s based on my own bad experience. Back then I was still using the Ap Dose; these days I only use Gepedosen for 35mm and 120 film.
My problem was that the film got wound up wrong, so that the layers were on top of each other and it didn’t develop properly.
That’s why I now only use Gepedosen with the film loader.
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Best regards, Achim
userid0
Hi Achim,
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Thanks for the feedback. I use Paterson canisters and have never had any problems loading them. As it’s the first few frames that are affected, something might have gone wrong in the middle of the reel.?
That’s something I can’t really check, though. I suppose I can only hope that winding the next film goes more smoothly.?
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Oh, and Achim, do you have any ideas about the development time correction I mentioned above?
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Best regards and thanks,
Walter
AchimBauer
Hi Walter,
I can’t think of anything to say about the extensions; I found the system a bit confusing too, which is why I didn’t use the bottle-based system in the first place, but developed my films one after the other in their original solutions – that was the easiest way.
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Best regards, Achim
