DennisG
Hello everyone, after shooting with 6x7 for a while now, I’m finding myself increasingly drawn to the square format.
I’d like to get myself a 6x6 camera with interchangeable lenses (provided I manage to sell my digital camera).
My options are now:
Kiev 88 with 5 lenses and other accessories?
Zodiak K-8, f/3.5, 30mm?
Two Volna 3 MCs, f/2.8, 80mm?
Jupiter 36B, f/3.5, 250mm?
Vega 28B MC, f/2.8, 120mm?
Mir 38B, f/3.5, 65mm
or a Pentacon Six
with three lenses and optional accessories.
Sonnar 180mm f/2.8
Biotar 80mm f/2.8
Flektogon 50mm f/4 lens
Price-wise, they’re on a par.
Now I’ve read that both cameras have their pros and cons. Pentacon has transport issues; Kiev has various problems. I’d now be interested in the opinions of people who can comment on both setups or have perhaps even taken photos with them. What do you think I’ll get more enjoyment out of? What matters to me is the end result on the negative, not the camera’s appearance (though I suppose there are people for whom that does matter :-P). In terms of image quality, I’m used to the Mamiya RB67.
Many thanks to you all.
?
Wolf_XL
...to be perfectly honest – I couldn’t in good conscience recommend either of them... Unfortunately, the quality of Eastern European medium-format cameras ranges from abysmal to quite OK.
€
Let’s start with the Kiev 88:
€
The camera itself takes even the slightest mishandling extremely badly – see the Kiev mantra: ‘Only change the shutter speed when the shutter is cocked, otherwise...’ The lenses themselves are basically OK – especially if the foreman in charge had already locked away the vodka before the breakfast break... ;-) You can pretty much always expect play in the millimetre range, and jerky worm gears are almost a tradition...?
€
The Pentacon Six has similar problems – just not quite as pronounced... One major issue, for example, is the lubricants – a P’Six that hasn’t seen a workshop since the fall of the Berlin Wall is a treasure trove of constant unpleasant surprises. Incidentally, it takes a rough handling just as badly as the Kiev – though with the P'Six, at least this doesn’t immediately lead to a total breakdown...?
€
So, simply buying one, loading film, taking photos and enjoying yourself is likely to be the exception with both models. Anyone who, for example, has a P'Six or Kiev that works well and has come to terms with its specific quirks rarely parts with it.
€
And if you’re already spoilt by the Mamiya RB67 – which I also own – your only options for 6x6 are Hasselblad, Rollei or Zenza Bronica. Unless, of course, you’d consider a twin-lens camera like the Mamiya C 220/330...
€
So there are plenty of possibilities...
DennisG
Hi Wolf_XL,
Yes, unfortunately I’ve heard or read that quite a few times now. Oh dear, oh dear – it’s such a struggle to find something nice that’s still affordable. I’m not really a fan of twin-lens cameras. So I’m leaning more towards a Zenza or a Rollei; as much as I’d love to, I simply can’t afford a Hassi. I’m always grateful for further tips and recommendations, though. PS: how much might a Zenza with, say, 1–2 lenses cost?
Urnes
You’ll pay around 300–400 for the Zenza with a magazine and an 80mm lens. The second lens will set you back another 200.
Honestly. Make yourself a viewfinder mask for the RB in 6x6 and crop the negative when enlarging. The RB’s quality is superb. The square format is overrated anyway, and 6x7 isn’t that far off.
Regards, Sven.
mattes
I bought a Kiev 60 around 1987.
The camera worked for almost exactly two weeks after the warranty expired.
Then I started getting overlapping negatives and the shutter wouldn’t close properly. The in-house camera technician sorted it out as a gesture of goodwill.
In the Rhineland, there’s a lovely word for such repairs: ‘Beimachen’. After that, the fault returned after five rolls of film.
I then put the Kiev in a corner and forgot about medium format. Good MF cameras were too expensive for me in the analogue era. Later, at Photokina, I was won over by a high-end Praktica Six, the Exakta 66. I saved up for it and bought it later. It was slightly better and considerably more expensive than the original or the Kiev affair. As the Exakta is, in principle, a boxy Praktisix apart from a few details, it also has the same weaknesses. This camera, too, had overlaps and an occasionally open shutter. Here, too, it required repair after the warranty period had expired.
You only stick with these systems because of the lenses. Although that’s no longer a reason today.
If it has to be 6x6, I’d recommend the Mamiya C330 or C220 today. The cameras are robust yet still portable. The lenses are top-class and have the advantage that the viewfinder and taking lens are identical and interchangeable.
You’ll have to do without exotic lenses like the Kiev 30mm and the ‘Russian barrel’. But focal lengths ranging from 50 to 250mm are perfectly adequate.
I like the idea of the viewfinder screen for the 6x7 format. A cheap, reliable and simple solution.
I’d steer clear of the Praktika/Kiev stuff. It’s too much of a faff for me: in principle it’s fine if the owner enjoys tinkering.
Matthias
Wolf_XL
...if only it weren’t for their age – the Kowa Six or the Norita. Both are from Japan – but unfortunately they’re quite rare and, given their age, not entirely without their issues. On the plus side, at least they don’t have any design-related quirks...
mattes
There is another drawback to medium-format SLR cameras based on the design principle of the Exakta 66/Pentacon/Kiev cameras. The advantage of cheaper, shutterless lenses comes at the cost of a relatively large shutter and a swinging mirror. Kiev cameras, in particular, are notorious for mirror shock. The Pentacon Exakta66 models may be slightly better in this respect, but they are typical examples of cameras that require sturdy and heavy tripods.
Of all the medium-format cameras I am familiar with, I like the Mamiya C system best. Another advantage of this camera is its commercial success, which continues to supply the market with a vast number of good cameras today. Thanks to the relatively large supply, these are available at affordable prices.
Unfortunately, there is a fly in the ointment here too: due to the design for interchangeable lenses, the shutter release mechanism is not as silky-smooth and supple as we are used to with other cameras. Unfortunately, Mamiya did not equip the lenses for the Mamiya C series with a cable release socket.
Matthias
mattes
Addendum.
The Pentacon Six has one significant advantage: it’s possible to create your own custom setups with a reasonable amount of effort. In my case, this involves adapting a 4.5/75mm Tominon lens from a Polaroid Cu5, complete with a ring flash.
With the Pentacon Six, there are numerous listings for cameras with faulty shutters. Most reports mention problems with the 1/125 sec, 1/250 sec and 1/500 sec speeds.
This fault, caused by resinous lubricant, can be rectified with a professional overhaul.
Anyone buying a Pentacon or Exakta 66 that hasn’t yet been overhauled should expect to pay around €100–150 for this necessary work.
Furthermore, the Pentacon Six isn’t cold-resistant; in the words of an expert: ‘It’s a fair-weather camera.’
I bought a Pentacon Six to go with my Exakta. As a backup and a second body. Now that the Mamiya C has become quite expensive, it is still an affordable alternative with some very interesting lenses.
Matthias
TR
Or you could get hold of a mint-condition Arax from Ukraine. As I still had the lenses for this from my Pentacon Six and Kiev 60, as well as the viewfinders, I ordered a new (?) body. Including customs duties and postage (both of which were quite high), it ended up costing just under 350 euros.
In return, you no longer need servicing or have to find someone to work on an old camera like this, and the Arax has a few improvements over the Kiev 60: https://analoge-fotografie.net/blog/arax-60/
mattes
The Arax is an interesting camera. Its main advantage is its P6 mount and its more meticulous build quality.
It is essentially like the Exakta 66, which is nothing more than a Pentacon Six.
A Kiev 60 with minor modifications.
You’re buying a new old camera. The camera is 30 years old when bought new.
It has all the system-related quirks of the Kiev 60/Pentacon Six family.
Personally, I find the Arax too expensive.
Especially if you’re just starting out and don’t yet own any suitable lenses or accessories.
For the €350 paid, you could certainly have found a Mamiya C330 or C220 with at least one lens.
A different calculation for the P6: a newer Pentacon Six complete with lens and light well for €120 + professional overhaul for €120 = €240.
Foto Olbricht in Görlitz delivers a fully readjusted and overhauled camera following a service. With this, the usual 12 frames fit on the film. Losing one frame doesn’t sound dramatic, but it adds up. The Pentacon Six controls the negative length with a measuring roller.
If you load and advance the film according to the instructions, there are no overlapping negatives in cameras that are in working order.
On mirror pre-release. A good idea for the Arax. I still remember the mirror shock from my Kiev 60, which I always used with a tripod and a pre-release.
The Exakta 3 had something similar, although using the mirror pre-release was cumbersome and was controversial among quite a few genuine experts.
Mattes
