Nova processor

heinrich · 2014-12-06T21:23:27+00:00

Hallo, ich liebäugle mit der Anschaffung eines Nova Schlitz - Prozessors. Ich verarbeite Baryt- und PE-Papier. Hat jemand Erfahrung mit dem Nova Trimate - k...

heinrich

Hello, I’m thinking about buying a Nova Schlitz processor. I process baryta and PE paper. Does anyone have any experience with the Nova Trimate – can it also process baryta, or would I be better off with the more expensive baryta processor? And can the 30x40 processor handle small formats (min. 13x18) without any major issues? Thanks in advance for your tips! Heinrich

HGR

Hello, In standard Nova processors, the images are moved using holders that pierce the edge of the paper with small needles. PE paper is tough enough for this; you can hardly see the holes. Baryta paper, however, becomes heavier due to the liquid, so the needles might tear it. That’s why, if I remember correctly, baryta processors have large plastic holders into which the paper is inserted. I’ve never actually held one of those in my hands, though. Best regards, Hans-Gerd

StraDi

I also looked into the Nova Trimate processor a while back. Mainly for RA-4 development, as I find the unit less suitable for black-and-white work due to the narrow tanks and the limited movement of the paper … especially as I prefer to develop by eye. ? However, I ruled out the Trimate for two specific reasons: ? 1. As mentioned above, the holder is rather unsuitable for baryta papers, although this could be easily remedied 2. The far more significant reason: the price. I simply consider it too high, as, on the one hand, you can get second-hand processors more cheaply, which are also more convenient to use, and, on the other hand, the device can be replaced with a few trays and a thermostat-controlled cable heater for just a few euros. ? With a bit of DIY skill and spending less than a fifth of the Trimate’s purchase price, the results are just as good. ? In that respect, I do consider the Nova Trimate to be a perfectly serviceable device, but not at this price. ? cu ... Dirk

heinrich

Thank you very much for your feedback! So it’s 2–0 against the Trimate now. But perhaps someone with practical experience will come forward! Best regards, Heinrich

HGR

I’ve been misunderstood. I’m not against the Trimate. It’s very well suited to PE paper! Best regards, Hans-Gerd

heinrich

... Thanks for clarifying that ... I’ve only read half of it again, haven’t I?

zensusa

Hello Heinrich, I’d like to share a few practical tips based on twenty years’ experience with the NOVA processor. I’ve been working with the processor (serial number 111203, so from the early days) and a NOVA archive washer since the mid-90s. I can’t even remember if it was called Trimate back then. In any case, I use it professionally, so it’s been in continuous use! It consists of three vertical chambers, which can be heated via a built-in control. Advantages: 1. It is heatable – I work at a temperature of 23 degrees (the processor setting is adjusted accordingly to approx. 25 degrees). As it remains switched on, the temperature stays constant, even overnight in both summer and winter! I have also attached polystyrene to the outer long sides (it’s easy to wedge in place) and this saves on ‘heating up’ as it provides better insulation. 2. The chemicals last a month without any problems, as the individual tanks are very narrow and are sealed with the respective round cover rod. Due to consumption (dragging or absorption by the paper), only the individual tanks need to be refilled. 3. It takes up little floor space despite its size (my Trimate is designed for 40 x 50 cm paper) 4. The papers are pulled from bath to bath using the clip and are thus automatically stripped along the edge of the tank (minimal carry-over of chemicals into the next tank) 5. When used as a tool in regular operation, it is worth the price and by no means too expensive, as it ensures minimal chemical consumption and saves a great deal of unproductive time in laboratory work, since the chemicals remain in the processor for weeks! Regarding my statement about the chemicals remaining for up to a month, this references Calbe’s N113 (stable for approx. 3 weeks) and LPD-Ethol from Brandess/Kalt/Aetna. The latter has been my preferred developer for ages and, in my opinion, is truly the best paper developer, as it delivers everything one could wish for, from a cool black-blue to a deep brown-black (depending on whether using bromide silver or bromochloride silver paper). Extremely stable for up to 6 weeks in Nova without any visible deterioration. Unfortunately, it is not always available (though I still have a dozen tins in stock). I work exclusively with baryta papers! I only use PE paper as contact sheets for archiving. My preferred baryta papers were (unfortunately, quite a few are no longer available) or are as follows and were processed in the Nova: Guilleminot G3, Kentere Fineprint VC/Warm Tone and Art De Lux, Agfa MCC 111FB, Forte Polywarm Tone, FOTOIMPEX Classic Arts PW, Oriental New Seagull G2 and Oriental Portrait, and New Seagull VC-FBII Warm Tone. I am still currently working with Forte and Oriental VC-FBII, as I have a few packs in stock. It is important to note that most of these papers are ‘heavy’ papers, i.e. they weigh between 175 and 300 gsm. Nevertheless, these papers can be clipped at the narrow end and handled using the PE needle holder (Nova didn’t produce baryta paper holders at the time). For the large 40x50 papers, I use two clip-on holders at the same time. It’s all just a matter of practice; in any case, the papers won’t tear if you do it properly! Just to add. The stop bath is prepared using ‘Vitamin C’ from dm (available everywhere at a reasonable price) and the fixer consists of a neutral solution (I use RXA from LaborPartner/Maco). Neutral fixers are also available here at FOTOIMPEX. If you resume work after a long break (e.g. the following day), you should stir the chemicals in the tanks with the narrow rod provided before starting work, as liquid chemical solutions tend to experience settling or separation! I can wholeheartedly recommend the NOVA without reservation; it saves a lot of work and chemicals, guarantees the same working temperature in summer and winter, requires little floor space compared to tray processing and, despite the correspondingly high purchase price, ultimately saves a great deal of money if you use it regularly! Best regards, and I hope you have fun and success with the Nova

zensusa

Hello Heinrich … I’d forgotten … ? Of course, you can also process smaller formats in the large processor, as the paper is always attached to the clip and doesn’t come loose. Of course, even when processing smaller formats, you must always fill the processor with the appropriate amount of chemicals required for its standard size. So if you mainly process small formats, a large processor is actually oversized due to the amount of chemicals required......? ? ..bye

zensusa

Hello Heinrich .... And just a quick addendum to my posts above ..... someone just asked me about it .....: So? ‘Vitamin C’ naturally means ‘pure citric acid’, e.g. from the company ‘Heitmann’. Is it available from other companies too? You can find it in any chemist’s. The neutral fixer I use for baryta papers is, of course, RXN (that’s the neutral one) and not RXA. I use RXA (acidic fixer) for my films. ? Bye

heinrich

Hello Zensusa, Thank you very much! Now I just need to convince my CFO... Just a quick question: how do you empty the processor? I don’t suppose you can just carry it over to the sink, can you? Best regards, Heinrich

zensusa

Hello Heinrich, On my processor, each chemical chamber has a drain tap located at the bottom of the front panel. I’ve attached a hose to each one (a small, thin one like those used with aquarium pumps). All three hoses are routed into a collection container; this is the simplest way to drain used chemicals. Of course, you can also hold a bucket or similar underneath when draining. The current processor should have the same dimensions. As for the water jacket tank – I don’t know if the current processor still has one – I’ve never emptied it in the twenty years I’ve been using it, but have simply made sure the water level is correct. By the way, the processor is actually designed to be kept in a fixed, permanent location; it’s too heavy to be moved back and forth (when full), and it’s not really intended to be emptied after every work session either – that would be far too much hassle! ... and bye

StraDi

Hello, I can certainly see the point about saving space. However, the Nova for b/w also has significant drawbacks, which, given the price, make the machine seem obsolete to me. It’s a different matter for RA-4 on a small scale. The disadvantages for b/w: - Hanging development without any significant movement of the paper (or turbulence in the chemicals) leads to uneven development results (proportional to the size of the print; for small prints and low quality standards, this may be tolerable). - I doubt that one should continue to use developer for months on end in a previously used (inoculated) state, even under more or less airtight conditions... :) Besides, I can achieve the same result with a suitable piece of PVC sheet for each tray. So the argument itself doesn’t hold water; it’s simply the space saved, if you have limited lab space to begin with (though there are also affordable solutions from... I believe... JOBO). And once the chemicals are spent, they’re spent – and that happens quite quickly if you run through 30 or 40 18x24 prints (even faster with larger formats). Chemicals are cheap, and to achieve maximum quality they should be regenerated or even prepared fresh. - I consider temperature control for b/w printing to be rather unnecessary. In my darkroom (a room in my flat, in the attic), I have neither midsummer room temperatures above 24°C nor arctic temperatures below 18°C, regardless of the season. When the water temperature is set to 20°C, it remains largely constant for hours or even days at these room temperatures. At the very least, you shouldn’t be running your darkroom in an uninsulated attic or in a wooden shed in the garden anyway. :) - Carry-over: well, even with trays, I don’t carry over dozens of millilitres of, say, developer into the stop bath, etc. With PE paper, there’s very little of it anyway, and with baryta, it can’t be avoided even with the scraper on the Nova, because most of the chemical is trapped in the paper felt. And that’s precisely where it gets tricky, due to the limited or non-existent ability to move the (baryta) paper properly in the Nova. - I cannot visually monitor the development process. - With large formats and a vertical tank, there is always the risk of uneven development due to the images being immersed too slowly. In the tray, I lay it flat in the developer so that the entire image is immediately wetted, and I can easily move it or the tray to achieve consistent results and reproducible contrasts. - For two-bath development or fixing in two trays, I need another tray after all. And if one cites so many fine baryta papers as a backdrop to one’s own processing experience, then one ought at least to be more critical in comparison regarding the maximum achievable image quality and also be able to identify such subtleties. Now comes my expert opinion: in 25 years of darkroom experience (including as a professional lab technician), the often uninformed enthusiast is often offered, for a lot of money, something they don’t need at all and which cannot improve the quality of their results in any way... quite the opposite, in fact. For me, the advantages of the Trimate lie in: 1. Small footprint 2. Simple three-bath processing for PE papers 3. The option of RA-4 colour processing for the hobby lab – and that is precisely where the Trimate’s key advantage lies! An interesting piece of kit for RA-4 colour (thanks to the thermostat) if you don’t fancy tinkering... an absolute flop for b/w baryta processing! For b/w PE, certainly an option if you’re short on space – bearing in mind the limitations of the machine. I’d invest the money in decent paper, chemicals and, if necessary, a proper enlarger lens and/or a ground glass viewfinder. You’ll certainly get more out of that. See you... Dirk

zensusa

Hello Dirk, € I’ll just say one more thing about the Nova, because a discussion like the one that’s starting to develop here is actually unnecessary. If you don’t want a Nova, if you find it too expensive and unnecessary, well, that’s up to you. However, your arguments are rather general and theoretical, and have little to do with my reported practical experience.€ € - Hanging development does not necessarily and generally lead to irregular development, but only under certain circumstances, such as if I were not to move it!? The range of movement on my Nova (this will certainly also apply to smaller models with the appropriate paper) is sufficient for precisely developed 40x50 prints and certainly for smaller formats. € Stirring the chemicals before a working session is, as I have already mentioned, a matter of course and is entirely sufficient to achieve an even distribution.€ € - All prints I produce can be reproduced exactly, with no deviation in contrast, uniformity or tonal values. For these reasons, temperature control for b/w is actually advisable. If I have tested a specific paper with a specific developer at a specific, constant temperature and if my negatives have been correctly exposed, developed and exposed in the enlarger, then the development time in the processor for this combination is generally fixed, so I don’t have to work by eye! This is a fact that can be experienced in practice, which countless photographers besides myself have already experienced and can confirm. Incidentally, many photographers are unable to make an exact, visual, repeatable assessment of the development process/image build-up/image finalisation under ‘darkroom lighting’ (e.g. red light) (I have met a few photographers myself). In negative development, you don’t work by sight either (though you could), but according to a set procedure for a specific combination of film, developer and time that you established at some point and which you can then repeat exactly under these conditions to obtain negatives of the corresponding quality!? € - When a chemical solution has been used up, it naturally has to be replaced. But this applies generally and has more to do with the volume of film processed. In the Nova, chemicals generally last a very long time, longer than in a tray. Incidentally, I wasn’t talking about months, but about 3 to 6 weeks in relation to two developers I primarily use, namely Calbes’ N113 (which generally has good stability) and LPD-Ethol, whose stability is even better, and I was specifically referring to very particular, particularly heavy baryta papers, which were handled without damage despite their weight. The fact is, however, that this is true: the Trimate was originally developed for PE papers. € The fact that one can produce high-quality baryta prints with a Nova is also demonstrated by the fact that my photos sell, have been exhibited, and that I make a living from them. Incidentally, as I have been involved in practical photography for over forty years (not to prove anything, but it is a fact that practical experience counts), I would say I know what I’m talking about, and many a theory is surpassed by practical experience. € Incidentally, I was one of the first to use Heiland’s Splitgrade and also someone who switched to Jobo and rotary processing very early on in my photographic career. What do you think, Dirk, what did people predict back then regarding losses in negative, image and other quality, as well as productivity, if I were to use this equipment? That’s right, they predicted all sorts of doom and gloom. However, I have never regretted my decisions to this day, and the equipment has become indispensable to my work? € € and it has by no means led to a deterioration in image quality or image production! € I hope, Heinrich, that you can draw a basis for your decision from this writing, because none of us has claimed anything generally false, and I am certainly not a sales agent for the Nova Group? :) € € and bye

heinrich

Hello everyone, ? First of all, thank you very much for your contributions – the pros and cons have now been discussed at length – apart from the cost, the advantages certainly outweigh the disadvantages: the chemicals last longer, you can work comfortably at 25°C (which makes everything a bit quicker), baryta paper works too, you need less worktop space, and you can even print 2–3 photos without having to wash the developing reels straight afterwards. The cost is still an issue, but Christmas is coming soon and my birthday’s coming up too? ... and my finance director has already signalled a willingness to negotiate ;-). ? Best regards, Heinrich