Stefan
Hello!
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I used to buy film by the metre quite often because of the price advantage. However, I can no longer see this advantage with Kodak and Ilford. After all, I need cassettes, which I can’t use as often as I’d like.
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Why is that? Surely it takes manufacturers far less effort to package film by the metre than to fill film cassettes.
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Best regards!
Bonderer
Hello
Film by the metre is still available, including from the host. However, Kodak has significantly increased its prices for film by the metre, so it’s actually no longer worth winding it yourself.
It seems some people were spooling bulk film and selling it cheaper than ready-made rolls. Kodak didn’t like that at all, so the price was raised significantly. Bulk film is worth it if you need short rolls limited to just a few shots. Many photographers in the struggling daily press used to do this. I won’t even mention the price advantage. As the film cartridges are stiffer than the ready-made ones, the film feed is also more difficult. I’m pretty sure I once ruined the film feed on an M 6 this way. I could have bought a lot of film with the money it cost to repair it. No more bulk film for me since then.
TR
>> Buying film by the metre is worth it if you need short rolls for just a few shots.
Even in this case, you can simply cut the film in the camera using a film-changing pouch and remove the section with exposure. I do that quite often.
AchimBauer
Hi Stephan,
I still really like buying film by the metre from Kb, partly because Orwo N74 is only available by the metre, and partly because it gives me flexibility with the film length.
One drawback is the lack of DX coding (I now have cameras in my collection where you can no longer set the speed manually), but you can buy labels for this or make your own.
The advantage is the option to fill long film magazines, or, if you still have an Ilford Autowinder developing tank, to make 72-exposure films from the rolls cast on thin PET.
Whether it’s financially worthwhile depends on how tedious you find winding the film yourself. But even if you only use the reels five times, you can save up to €1 per film, depending on the material.
Even with Kodak, provided it’s from the right source. It’s only at our local shop that the film sold by the metre is more expensive than the pre-spooled version, and that’s with an expiry date of March 2013 – I don’t know why that is.
The fact that the price advantage of film by the metre is so small may also be because, although the manufacturers have less work involved, they don’t have enough volume for film by the metre, or because they want to make better use of their more labour-intensive packaging processes.
If you really want to save money, why not try the Polypan F or the Lucky? I’m not familiar with the former, but even if only the Lucky were available, that would be no reason to give up photography.
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Regards, Achim
Morte
For one thing, I can only get the Orwo N74 by the metre,
Achim, where do you order the Orwo from?
My enquiry to FOTOIMPEX asking whether they would consider adding the Orwo to their range or at least ordering it (which might have offered a price advantage due to potentially larger order quantities) went unanswered. Filmotec themselves gave me a quote, but it wasn’t worth it for me. However, I know there are certainly other places, some of them cheaper, where you can order film.
AchimBauer
Hi Morte,
You can get spools from Wittner Kinetec or from Wephota Banse and Grohmann. The new CHS 100 is also very similar to the Un 54 if you don’t want to wind the line yourself.
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Best regards, Achim
Morte
Thank you! Who/where/what is Grohmann?
AchimBauer
Hi Morte,
That’s a ready-made model, some sort of successor to the Ost Tura or another brand.
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www.wephota.de/fotogra.htm
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Regards, Achim
ThomasPauly
Speaking of N74: the Bergger 400 (available in 35mm cassettes) is apparently Filmotec N74. It seems to be easier to get hold of it in rolls in the US than in its country of origin: www.orwona.com.
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Best regards
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tepe
AchimBauer
Hello Tepe,
It stands to reason that Bergger’s 400 film is the N74 cassette, as Bergger is said to be Orwo Filmotec’s representative in France.
I doubt that Orwo Filmotec films are any easier to get hold of in the US, as there are distributors here too. The fact that you can order them directly from a website in the US is probably also because cinema films are more commonly wound onto cassettes there.
The site is of no interest to us, as Orwona only delivers to the US, Canada and Mexico.
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Regards, Achim
AntiLynd
Kodak produces ‘Double-X’, a 35mm cine film, also known as ‘Eastman 5222’. A 1,000-foot reel costs around $800. However, I haven’t yet been able to find a European supplier (and, out of respect, I wouldn’t want to mention it on our host’s forum ;) ).
grommi
Kodak produces ‘Double-X’, a 35mm cine film, also known as ‘Eastman 5222’. A 1,000-foot reel costs around $800. However, I haven’t yet been able to find a European supplier.
Around $4.50 per 36-exposure film sold by the metre isn’t exactly a bargain. The conversion from $ to € is likely to be eaten up by import duties as well. The days of truly affordable cine film for us amateur photographers seem to be well and truly over. Filmotec films, for example, haven’t been a bargain for a long time now, and with Banse and Grohmann, I get the impression they have no interest in selling directly to customers. That leaves the reasonably acceptable prices for film sold by the metre from Foma and Rollei. Let’s see how long that lasts....
AntiLynd
About $4.50 for a 36-exposure roll sold by the metre isn’t exactly a great deal.
I didn’t claim it was either. Like some of the previous speakers, I’m not convinced by the whole DIY film-making thing anyway. I’ve always had the impression that people are saving in the wrong place, or rather, I’ve always found this kind of economic thinking a bit odd (for me) when it comes to a hobby that you pursue as a passion, not for the purpose of making money.
Wolfgg
As well as customs duty, private individuals also have to pay import VAT (19%), and when you add in the high postage costs (as everything is sent by air), importing goods yourself is rarely worth it.
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Best regards, Wolfgang
AchimBauer
Morning everyone,
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Direct import isn’t necessarily worth it financially, and winding the film yourself isn’t always the best option either, but film sold by the metre takes up less storage space, which is why I also have some CHS 100 1.
But there are other reasons for direct import too, if you want films outside the usual range, and that’s the Double X; there’s an interesting site for this at www.project-double-x.org, which is of interest not only to those who rewind their own film but also to those who develop their own, as there’s a huge number of developing recipes there.
And whilst I was searching, I also discovered sources for 30.5m rolls, where you can get Double X in cassettes too, and other little bags from the Kodak cinema range, and what surprised me was that SVEMA films, which are apparently back on the market, are even said to have their own web shop – though not under the name SVEMA and only in Cyrillic, so as I can’t read that, I didn’t get any further.
But to stick with reloading, there are plenty of reasons to reload yourself – apart from saving money – but there are also reasons against it, such as scratching, etc.
Everyone has to make that decision for themselves
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Regards, Achim
MirkoBoeddecker
The fact that the price of Kodak film has risen more quickly here than elsewhere is probably because we generate more turnover and are therefore often the first to have to pass on such price increases. Due to the ruinous margins on all films, and particularly on Kodak products, we have to pass on every price increase immediately and generally keep very little stock.
We were told that it wasn’t worth it in terms of quantities, which is why the film is now so expensive.
I can understand that to a certain extent. They probably have to heat an entire building with a doorman so that once a month an elderly gentleman in a white coat can spend hours setting up a machine, only to produce all the roll film required worldwide from 16:16 to 16:18...
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We have just invested in a flexible, small roll film packaging machine. Not actually intended for the market in question here, but we can use it for that purpose too. We will therefore be releasing a few film types as roll film (starting with the Silvermax).
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I could also envisage Filmotec films, but only if I can at least cover my costs when comparing prices with Filmotec itself.
That is – as is almost always the case in the film business these days – highly doubtful.
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We once enquired at Filmotec about cinema films, but they told us that they are generally not interested in promoting the ‘misuse’ of the material through active sales.
If a film is so cheap that people are clamouring for it, it always means the seller is earning pennies at best. They make their money by selling tens of thousands of metres to a single customer at a time. 30.5-metre reels are normally given away to film customers as test material.
The list price for the short rolls is nominal. If anyone were actually to buy lots of them, they’d have to raise the price, and if they were to work out what distributing a single roll really costs them in staff costs, they’d buy a call blocker to fend off the calls. I keep reading over and over again how great it is to buy from there. Please bear in mind that you, who are supplied with individual rolls at list prices from there, are not ‘customers’ but are simply being done a personal favour. This isn’t sustainable, and nobody can make a living from it. So it’s better not to shout it from the rooftops but to enjoy it quietly while it lasts :-)
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The Double XX is a cinema film and has a RemJet backing!
You can’t just develop it like that, and above all, you can’t get it developed anywhere.
It was produced on a trial basis by our partner Cinestill last summer.
However, the project is currently on hold because Kodak isn’t performing the coating process on the film and there’s no fresh raw material available in commercial quantities anywhere in the world.
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Banse and Grohmann are retiring.
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Cassettes shouldn’t get stuck if you don’t wind on too much film. That’s what the loading devices are for – alternatively, never wind on more than three forearm lengths; that’s easy to measure in the dark.
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Did I catch everything?
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Best regards,
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Mirko
Wolf_XL
... you should keep an eye on Filmotec – I’ve just come back from the darkroom, where I enlarged an N74. For me, it’s in the same league as a Tri-X, HP-5 or Neopan 400.
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The same goes for the UN54 – in my opinion, it could easily replace the APX 100... These are films that you can simply use without restriction for pictorial photography.
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The relabelled Agfa aerial films, on the other hand, aren’t bad – but you just have to be able to get used to their look.
MirkoBoeddecker
... you should keep an eye on Filmotec – I’ve just come back from the darkroom, where I enlarged an N74. For me, it’s in the same league as a Tri-X, HP-5 or Neopan 400.
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The same goes for the UN54 – in my opinion, it could easily replace the APX 100... These are films you can simply use without restriction for pictorial photography.
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The relabelled Agfa aerial films, on the other hand, aren’t bad – but you just have to get used to their look.
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That’s right :-)
AntiLynd
Mirko, thanks for clarifying that. I’d been wondering for a while why you don’t stock their films, and I can see why now – though I don’t particularly miss them either. Because if, as Wolf says, an N74 is in the same league as an HP5, I don’t see the slightest incentive for me to part with the latter.
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Just a small correction:
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The Double XX is a cinema film and has a RemJet backing!
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...as a perfectly ordinary black-and-white film, the 5222 (“Double-X”) naturally has
no RemJet coating. I’m currently using up my remaining stock of its slightly less speedy sibling, the 5231 (which is nothing more than the Plus-X with cinema-compatible perforation and edge labelling), alongside the Foto-Plus-X, and can perform processing on both in exactly the same way. As mentioned above, however, I don’t think it’s worth bothering with the Double-X and the fact that it’s not exactly easy to get hold of. It’s not as if there aren’t plenty of other options on the market in the medium-speed film sector with traditional grain.
Quinquaginta
... you should keep an eye on Filmotec – I’ve just come back from the darkroom, where I enlarged an N74. For me, it’s in the same league as a Tri-X, HP-5 or Neopan 400.
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The same goes for the UN54 – in my opinion, it could easily replace the APX 100... These are films you can simply use without restriction for pictorial photography.
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The relabelled Agfa aerial films, on the other hand, aren’t bad – but you just have to get used to their look.
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Hello Wolf,
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Filmotec N74:
Based on my test results with this film compared to the other 400 ISO black-and-white films on the market with a classic crystal structure, I largely agree with your assessment. In terms of resolution and sharpness, the N74 is on a par with Tri-X (which, admittedly, is no great feat ;-)) ).
However, Tri-X has a finer grain. The HP5+ has slightly poorer resolution and a slightly coarser grain.
The Neopan 400 slightly outperforms the three mentioned in terms of resolution and fine grain.
XP2 Super, Delta 400 and, in particular, the TMY-2 and BW 400 CN are then in a league of their own.
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However, I wouldn’t want to give Mirko the same advice as you to stick with the N74. Bergger has already done that, and markets the film as BRF 400Plus.
And as I’ve had the chance to test the latest version of the Adox Pan 400, I’d prefer this film to the N74 because of its finer grain.
But in the current situation, that’s of course just an academic consideration ;-).
However, should the situation improve in the long term, if I were in Mirko’s shoes, I’d turn to his own film rather than the N74.
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UN54:
There is already a better alternative on the market for every photographer: Adox CHS 100 II. The spectral sensitivity is practically identical, but the sharpness and resolution are better with the CHS 100 II (I was pleasantly surprised during my tests). This is likely due in particular to the additional backing, which also acts as an antihalation device.
What’s more, it comes ready-spooled, so you don’t have to fiddle about with spooling it yourself (which takes time = high opportunity costs).
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Best regards,
Henning
