SayCheese
Hello everyone,
I’ve got another question about my upcoming baryta workflow. I’ve got a lot of logistical issues to sort out, as I’m working in a rented darkroom on an hourly basis and naturally have to adapt to the existing facilities. The end result should be a selenium-toned baryta print. I’ve sorted out most of the issues, but I’m currently thinking about the following:
Originally, I’d planned to buy a neutral fixer to keep the rinsing time short and avoid having to prepare a separate HCA or soda bath (as I said, time is money in my case). But now I’ve realised: after the selenium toner bath, I still have to rinse again, so I’ll need HCA/soda etc. anyway, won’t I? In that case, can’t I just save myself the extra fixer and use the existing acid fixer instead? Or can you omit the rinsing aid after the selenium toner if you’ve used a neutral fixer?
Many thanks in advance,
K
Morte
So, first of all: I rinse after using the selenium toner without any additives.
Secondly: You must rinse thoroughly after fixing, otherwise the toner will discolour the print. That’s why a neutral fixer makes perfect sense if you want to save time. If you use an acid fixer, the rinsing just takes longer …
MirkoBoeddecker
You could also pack them up whilst they’re still wet and rinse and tone them at home. I did that for years, though not because of a rental lab timer, but so I could have a bit of a watch whilst they were rinsing :-)
I’ve never used a neutral fixer either. Nobody needs it.
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Best regards,
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Mirko
SayCheese
Morte, Mirko, thank you very much for your replies!
@Morte: That’s pretty much what I had in mind. How long do you have to rinse for at least after toning? I’d like to keep it to a minimum, but you can’t buy hypo test solutions anywhere, and as far as I can see, most people tend to rinse for quite a long time just to be on the safe side.
@Mirko: I want to wet pack anyway, but toning at home isn’t an option with a wife who suffers from migraines and two small children in the flat... :) Maybe I’ll skip the toning for now; it makes things rather complicated.
I’m just a complete amateur hobbyist, but at least on paper the neutral fixer does seem to make sense. It’s not really any more expensive than normal acid fixer and I save myself the extra trip to get HCA/Lavaquick/Washaid. I have noticed, though, that this topic is sometimes discussed very emotionally.
Regards, K
gerich
In my experience with Adox MCC and neutral to slightly alkaline developer, small flakes of emulsion come off at the edges when wiping; this is much less of an issue with slightly acidic developer. I use Kodak C-41 1+4 for everything. For colour and black-and-white film, I use the fixer straight from the bottle (slightly alkaline, smells of ammonia); for paper, a slightly acidic solution (approx. pH 5–6, approx. 6.5 ml of 80% acetic acid per litre; the fixer then has a very faint smell of SO₂). To my knowledge, this fixer is by far the cheapest and is particularly well-suited for PMK developers. No need for extensive rinsing before the selenium toner. Collect the prints in a water tray until toning, change the water perhaps 1–2 times, drain off the water and then into the toner. I have never had any discolouration. After the toner, rinse briefly at approx. 28°C and then 3 minutes in HCA at approx. 20°C.
Best regards
G
MirkoBoeddecker
The fix then has a very faint smell of SO2
?
..but that doesn’t sound good :-(
ultra8
If an alkaline fixer is used, selenium toner can be carried out immediately after fixing. I’ve been doing this for years and have never had any problems with it. I use very concentrated fixer solutions, at least 1+4, and fix MCC, for example, for 1 minute using a two-bath process (30 seconds in each bath). Next comes the selenium toner, and then it’s off to the washing. 30 minutes should be sufficient for archival stability.
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I now collect 5 prints in a tray filled with heavily diluted HCA (homemade solution). Once 5 prints are ready, they go into the washer for washing. With such a rapid fixing process, archival stability should already be assured after 15 minutes of continuous washing.
piu58
> Can selenium toner be used immediately after fixing
?
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Selenium toner converts all the silver, including the silver thiosulphate. The less thoroughly you rinse after fixing, the more pronounced the grey haze will be. This does not affect the overall durability, but the highlights will be more or less heavily coated.
Morte
Regarding the question: Rinsing after toning is like rinsing after fixing.
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By the way, you could also do it this way to simplify the process:
Several darkroom sessions to produce lots of baryta prints. Let them dry normally. Then select the prints you consider worthy of toning. Next, set aside an extra hour in the darkroom, take the dry prints in, rinse them for about 5–10 minutes, tone them to your liking, rinse them thoroughly – done. You can do all this in daylight without darkroom lighting. I do it this way, and find it easier and less tiring than having to add the toning stage on top of several hours in the dark and countless steps.
ultra8
> Can selenium toner be carried out immediately after fixing
?
?
Selenium toners convert all the silver, including the silver thiosulphate. The less thoroughly you rinse after fixing, the greater the grey haze. This does not affect the overall durability, but you will end up with highlights that are more or less heavily toned.
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Selenium toners always attack the high silver densities first. Unless toning is carried out for a long time, the highlights should not be affected at all. Selenium toners also contain ammonium thiosulphate, the basis of a rapid fixer. The print should therefore be very well fixed before toning. With a two-bath fixing process, carry-over of silver thiosulphate is very, very low and is not a concern with short selenium toners.
TR
I do the same as Morte: I don’t tone or tone down the print until the next day, and then I stick it up to dry. I need to look at the print when it’s dry first, particularly to assess the toning and the brilliance.
SayCheese
OK, I don’t want to reinvent the wheel. So I’ll stick to my acidic Adofix 1+4 for 1 minute, then rinse, add soda, and perform 20–30 minutes of washing, just as described in the MCC data sheet.
I think the idea of drying in between is good; then I might be able to do the glazing at home after all when the family’s not there.
But now it’s about time to get started in practice. If you spend too long reading and planning, you end up creating more problems for yourself than would have been necessary. It doesn’t seem that complicated, after all.
Many thanks to everyone (and Thomas: great site!)
AndreasJung
My process:
1st evening: Develop 2 x Fix Neutral, rinse for 30 mins – dry on a rack
2nd evening: Check the dry prints! Select prints for toning (much easier with dry prints because of the dry-down...) then use selenium toner, then mount them wet?
3. Evening – delighted with a superb print ;-)
Works a treat –
