SayCheese
Good evening,
Sorry, this question might sound a bit daft, but that’s how it is when you’ve only picked up your knowledge from books. I’ve been working in communal darkrooms for quite some time now, and I’ve noticed that many—if not all—of the others leave their prints in the developer until there’s no longer any visible change. This can go so far that they simply leave the prints in the development tray forever until the next print goes in.
I, on the other hand, have always been very meticulous about following the data sheet and have transferred the paper to the stop bath to the second. If no proper black appeared within the given time, I would prepare a fresh batch of developer.
Which is the right approach? Am I wasting chemicals? Sure, the others get nice pictures too, but most people in these darkrooms tend to go for a LoFi aesthetic, whereas I want deep blacks, shadow detail and reproducible results. So it’s hard to compare. Are there any downsides to simply letting my prints develop for longer until the full black is achieved?
Many thanks and best regards, K.
Wolf_XL
...Photographic paper is developed – full stop...
This means it has to remain in the developer until there is absolutely no further reaction. However, this point is almost impossible to predict – it depends on many factors – such as the developer’s concentration, the temperature, the photographic paper itself, and so on and so forth...? So standing next to the developer with a stopwatch and removing the paper after exactly x seconds is certainly not the right way to go about it...
Renate
With standard red light, it is impossible to judge when a print is ‘properly’ developed. The human eye is simply not capable of this. This leaves only one method: using a stopwatch. If you leave the prints in the developer for too long, you enter what is known as the ‘torture zone’. All densities then increase uniformly. The image simply turns grey. The best way to determine where the boundary lies between beneficial development and the ‘torture zone’ is to test it using a grey scale and a stopwatch.
The ideal method is development using the factor method. This involves determining the beneficial development time for a particular paper-developer combination and the time taken for the first image traces to appear. This is done using fresh developer. From this, a factor is calculated. Thereafter, when developing, one always determines the time for the first image traces and multiplies this by the factor. Then one knows the optimal development time even for the old developer.
Best regards
Renate
Wolf_XL
...well, I’ve only ever ‘tortured’ baryta paper – where people often rub it with their finger to coax out every last bit of black – but with PE papers containing embedded developer substances, this ‘torture’ is likely to be a waste of time...
SayCheese
I’d like to thank you both very much for your replies. So, what I’ve taken away from this is: as long as there’s still visible movement in the shadows, the image isn’t fully developed and should be left in the developer. Is that right? Looking back, I’ve actually mostly had trouble achieving a proper black in the darkroom. That could well be the explanation – I simply didn’t develop the images fully but always stopped the process prematurely.
@Renate: However, I still don’t know how long I should actually develop them for, because I definitely don’t want the highlights to turn grey if I develop them for too long. But it can’t really be that complicated; the topic of development time for positives isn’t covered in any great detail in any of my books. I reckon the tricky part only starts well after the blackness has increased to a noticeable extent, doesn’t it?
K.
CommodoreMan
It takes a very long time before you actually overdevelop the paper.
It’s much less critical than with film.
Let me put it this way: according to my developer’s data sheet, the paper should be developed in about a minute. I usually leave it in for two minutes.
When I made a test print, I couldn’t see any difference even after three minutes.
Regards, C-Man
Urnes
If the darkroom is on the cool side, you can check the developing temperature from time to time. If it drops too much, the development time will need to be extended.
Regards, Sven.
Xenar
Hello,
I always develop for “exposure time × 4 … 6”. Provided the exposure is correct and the developer hasn’t been used up, nothing should happen after that. With PE, that’s the end of the line anyway.
In extreme cases, I leave baryta paper in the developer for a maximum of three minutes so that the paper’s felt doesn’t soak up too much. After all, everything has to be washed out or neutralised. In my experience, baryta paper can also turn completely black if you leave it in the developer for ages.
Best regards
Rolf-Werner
I place the paper in the developer and then start the stopwatch. Every now and then, I lift the lid slightly to let the liquid slosh about. After 2 minutes, the stopwatch beeps, and then I let it drain off. That usually takes between 2 minutes 15 seconds and 2 minutes 30 seconds.
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It doesn’t really matter if it takes a bit longer, though; for me, this works equally well with PE and baryta paper. After all, you have to settle on a definitive time; otherwise, the variables just keep piling up (exposure, contrast filtering, development time, temperature...). At two minutes, I don’t really get anything more, and if I do, it’s usually undesirable. I’d rather tweak the exposure; that’s easier to control.
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Regards
Rolf
Magirus
Rolf, my wife always fills up for €20 as well...
Sorry if I sound a bit blunt
There are lots of factors that come into play
when it comes to people
and their lab facilities.
I don’t think you can simplify it like that.
In Uwe Pilz’s course, I learnt that the time
it takes for the first image to appear is a good indicator.
You multiply that time by 6, and then the development is always consistent.
The factors – temperature, strength of the developer, age/consumption,
the properties of the paper and… – are balanced out.
I used to work by eye as well… the results are better now.
Regards, Bernd
TR
Hello, at some point there will be a fog. I think the factor method you mentioned makes the most sense. If the maximum black isn’t achieved, the paper has been exposed for too short a time and/or the developer is exhausted. With my Fomabrom paper (baryta), it needs to be developed for approx. 3 minutes (image formation time approx. 30 seconds) when my fresh developer is mixed at a ratio of 1+7. With Fomaspeed and other ‘speed papers’, it’s much quicker. If you use an even more concentrated developer, the image formation time decreases. Because 30 seconds of image formation time or a development time of 3 minutes isn’t a problem for a final print. But with all the test strips you have to make beforehand, it’s a bit of a nuisance.
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Just to add: if a print has grey highlights in the shadows despite deep blacks (with fresh paper and chemicals), then the gradation is simply too flat (use a harder paper or, with multigrade, a different filter [this happens frequently; develop the next films for longer]). In the positive process, the shadows are controlled by the exposure time, and the highlights by the gradation.
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>>people often rub the print with their finger to coax out that last bit of black
I think that’s a nice anecdote. I don’t believe that sort of thing is done ‘often’ or ‘gladly’. In fact, virtually nothing happens to the paper here. And you can’t see it under red light anyway.
SayCheese
Thanks again to everyone – you’ve been a great help.
K
KlausWehner
The following test may help clarify the situation:
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Expose a piece of photographic paper to the maximum extent possible (e.g. by briefly exposing it to daylight).
Cut the paper into 6 pieces and number them on the reverse side.
Then place all the pieces of paper into the developer at the same time, measure the exposure time and perform development for 90 seconds.
After 90 seconds, remove sheet no. 1 from the developer, stop the timer and fix it.
Then, every 30 seconds, remove another sheet from the tray and fix it (note the order).
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Once dry, assess under good lighting conditions at which development time the blackness stops increasing.
A factor can be calculated from the measured image development time and the optimal development time.
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Using the same principle, it is possible to determine, using unexposed paper, at what development time the fog begins to increase.
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Best regards
Klaus
mattes
More isn't necessarily better, but it usually doesn't do any harm either.
In my experience, it's easier to overdevelop paper than to underdevelop it. However, you should keep the development time consistent.
