New APX 100 and 400

MirkoBoeddecker · 2013-07-17T16:39:18+00:00

[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND] € € Morgen gibt Lupus die letzten original Leverkusener APX 100 in den Handel. € Ab 1. August liefern sie dann den APX 100 und AP...

MirkoBoeddecker

[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND] € € Tomorrow, Lupus will be releasing the last batch of original Leverkusen APX 100 film onto the market. € From 1 August, they will then be supplying the APX 100 and APX 400 NEW. € We have posted the new prices online today, but won’t receive the stock for a few days. € We’ve already had a few films from the pre-production run to test. Here are the new development times: € APX 100 NEW in ADONAL (RODINAL) 1+25: 5:30 minutes APX 100 NEW in ADONAL (RODINAL) 1+50: 10:00 minutes APX 400 NEW in ADONAL (RODINAL) 1+25: 11:30 minutes APX 400 NEW in ADONAL (RODINAL) 1+50: 21:00 minutes APX 100 NEW in ATOMAL stock solution: 9:30 minutes APX 400 NEW in ATOMAL stock solution: 10:30 minutes € € Best regards, € Mirko €

AchimBauer

Hi Mirko, ? If I’ve understood correctly, there are still two weeks’ worth of the original APX left, and then the new ones – I mean, the 100 and 400 are new. And where do they come from? Is this your 400 project, or do they come from Fuji or Ilford Kentmere, or from Belgian aerial photography production? And are they also available as roll film? ? Regards, Achim

MirkoBoeddecker

I don’t know how much longer genuine APX will be available. We’ve now raised the price of the last 1,000 rolls in our stock. For years, we’ve had to sell this film well below cost due to cut-throat competition. The few that are left can be sold off gradually, but at a profit. And if nobody buys them, that’s fine too – then we’ll have more sample stock ;-) I can’t comment on the background to the production of competing products. We don’t manufacture the film. We could never match that price. Best regards, Mirko

TiMo

I don’t know how much longer genuine APX will be available.

? Hopefully not for much longer. And then there’ll soon be a genuine ADOX 400. I certainly hope so. Any old rolls that suddenly turn up are a nuisance and must surely be a nightmare for the companies that still exist and manufacture film. And so they’re also rather detrimental to the continued existence of analogue photography.

MirkoBoeddecker

Hopefully not for much longer. And then we’ll soon have a proper ADOX 400

? As mentioned above, we wouldn’t be able to produce the film at this price point. Put more broadly, this means that, given current market prices, we generally cannot produce a ‘competitive, standard’ 100 or 400 film. When we launched the 400 project, there were quite a few interested parties, some with very large volumes, and the competitive landscape was different. Due to the lengthy teething problems, the partners gradually dropped out. On top of that, high-quality but borderline cheap 100 and 400 films suddenly appeared on the market. It would be mischievous to suspect a tactical ploy behind this ;-) As long as these films remain on the market under these conditions, all other manufacturers will be blocked. Any attempt to enter the market will result in a massive loss of capital. ? Quite apart from that, the closure of Fotokemika has now created sufficient opportunities for us to explore. We therefore had to reorient ourselves (at least temporarily) and realign our priorities. The new CHS100 II, for example, stands out from a ‘normal’ 100-speed film thanks to its sensitisation, the AHU and the clear base. We see this as an opportunity, as it is something special, and hope to be able to achieve the price we need to cover our costs.? ? Best regards, ? ?Mirko

michael-kielgmxnet

So what’s the latest on the new CHS 100 II? I’m hoping to give it a go on roll film during my next holiday in September. I’d be delighted if that works out.

TiMo

Hi Mirko, I didn’t want to pressure you into replying. The situation is well known, after all, and you’ve explained it many times before. ?

As long as these films remain on the market under these conditions, all other manufacturers will be blocked.? ?

? That’s exactly what I meant. And it’s rubbish. ? CHS II is going to be exciting in any case, and I’m really looking forward to it.

AchimBauer

Hello Mirko, ? It’s fine that you can’t or aren’t allowed to comment on other suppliers’ products, but the fact that Lupus isn’t saying anything is not only a shame but also doesn’t help the product, because if you look online, there’s already quite a buzz about it. On the one hand, there are those who already know what’s been relabelled: Kentmere Futschi (Fuji) Orwo Filmotec; and then there are those waiting for the Messiah to appear and believing that a revised original APX will be released. Personally, I believe in Kentmere – I don’t know why. But I still hope that I’ll be rewarded for this lie and that we’ll be supplied with top-quality APX material that ties in with the old days. If the 25 APX were to be added to that, it would be almost like paradise. If not, I can only hope that the CHS 100 2 comes close to the original, but it will have one flaw: it isn’t rounded up or down. But as we all know, you have to die once, or the rounding comes into play. ? ? Regards, Achim

Morte

I am unable to provide any information regarding the background to the production of competition material. ?

Hello Mirko, I do find this rather confusing: Is the new APX now a completely new (=different) film, or has it just been further developed? There must be some reason for continuing to use the name. And as retailers, surely you must have the right to inform your enquiring customers about the product. ? Oh, and one more thing: can you tell the difference between the two films just by looking at the box?

piu58

> There must be a reason to keep using the name. ? It’s well-established. And all APX users are looking for a replacement.

MirkoBoeddecker

If not, I can only hope that the CHS 100 2 is close to the original, but it will have one flaw: it isn’t rounded off at the top or bottom... ?

I’m completely baffled :wacko:. What do you mean by rounded up or down?? Regards, Mirko

MirkoBoeddecker

Is the new APX a completely new (=different) film, or has it just been further developed? ?

As I said earlier:

As long as these films remain on the market under these conditions, all other manufacturers will be blocked. Any attempt to enter the market will result in a massive loss of capital. ?

? In my opinion, this doesn’t just apply to us. We’re all in the same boat. Film as a product is borderline cheap on the market and can only be run by maintaining the status quo, with product implementation and plant costs already written off. Research, innovation (unless it serves to cut costs) and product development are neither desired nor financially viable. ? ?Best regards, Mirko

Morte

It’s well established. And all APX users are looking for a replacement.

I see it that way too. But ‘replacement’ somehow implies similarity, if not identity. That was my question: to what extent are they similar? I can’t (or won’t) imagine them simply slapping the traditional APX name onto any old 100-speed film. € Edit: Ah, I’d missed Mirko’s reply. Right, I’ll put my question in a rather housewife-like way (no offence to housewives): Could it be that the new APX films are produced by a different company, in a different location and with new/different people, but using a tried-and-tested formula and established production processes? That would suggest a certain kinship, more or less pronounced, with the Leverkusen product. Or do they take a cheap XY film (no offence to cheap films), stick an APX label on it and try to fool customers into thinking it’s consistent? In that case, we wouldn’t be dealing with any APX character at all. That would probably have died out by now.

piu58

> I can’t… imagine them just using any old 100-metre film You need to use your imagination a bit more! Because that’s exactly how it is.

Morte

I’ve got plenty of imagination – but I prefer to use it for cheerful things. ;-)

AchimBauer

€ <BLOCKQUOTE class="ipsBlockquote"> If not, I can only hope that the CHS 100 2 comes close to the original, but it will have the drawback of not being rounded up or down..

€ By ‘rounding off’, I mean a film with similar characteristics and performance to 50 and 25 ASA (rounding down) and 200 and 400 ASA (rounding up) although you can also do without 50 and 200. € That’s what I meant by rounding up and down, or rounding down and up. € Regards, Achim I’m completely lost :wacko:. What do you mean by rounded up or down? Regards, Mirko ? </blockquote>

MirkoBoeddecker

Could it be that the new APX models are manufactured by a different company, in a different location and by new or different staff, but using a tried-and-tested formula and established production processes ?

Transferring a film formulation to a different plant involves roughly the same, and often even greater, research effort than a new development. Since a new development is out of the question at the current market price, my statement holds true. You, who are gathered here in the forums, do not necessarily belong to the very first target group for the new APX. Here, a strong brand is being combined with a very affordable, high-quality film via an existing distribution channel. The customer sees the brand, buys it and gets decent pictures: everything is fine. The customer does not necessarily expect to get an image that is exactly as it would be if they had taken it with an APX made in Leverkusen. Anyone with that expectation could, after all, have stocked up at a low price for years. If one translates the above expectation into technical parameters, it could well result in a match with our Silvermax. The latter is performing so well that a new production in one form or another as a follow-up to the Polywarmton project would certainly be exciting. We are currently leaning towards a mixture of APX 25 and 100 on a clear base with an increased silver coating... but it’s all still a long way off. ? Best regards, Mirko

MirkoBoeddecker

By ‘rounding down’, I mean a film with similar characteristics and look to 50 and 25 ISO (rounding down) and 200 and 400 ISO (rounding up) €

Oh, I see, the speeds. It should be noted that the 400 doesn’t have much in common with the 100, and the 25, with its complex emulsions, actually represents the pinnacle of the range. In fact, as far as APX is concerned, only the 25 and the 100 are similar enough to be considered part of a series. It’s also difficult to continue such a range beyond 400, as these old emulations ‘run out of steam’ at 100 ISO and are actually ‘pushed to the limit’ at 400. If you need that speed, people have been taking a different approach for several decades now and are still managing to produce a very good film. € Best regards, Mirko

Morte

Thanks, Mirko, that’s made things a bit clearer for me. I didn’t realise there was still a target audience that simply buys based on brand names, regardless of their existing knowledge of film. Actually, that’s a good sign: not everyone has switched entirely to digital photography. You’re probably right about the Silvermax – there’s no real reason to complain. We’re still well supplied.

MirkoBoeddecker

I didn’t realise there was still a target audience that simply buys based on brand names, regardless of their existing knowledge of film.

I think that’s the larger group. Not everyone is as technically minded as some of the people on the forums. There’s also a certain gender divide, with women often taking the better photos (though they don’t always fully understand the technical aspects of how they achieved them) and men often knowing everything about the technology but forgetting about the actual photography. I hope no one feels offended by this – it’s obviously a generalisation ;-) At ADOX, we’ll be working harder in future to ensure the customer receives a complete, fully functional system (such as with the CMS 20 and ADOTECH, or the Silvermax plus Silvermax developer, etc.). If you stick closely to the guidelines, you don’t need to worry about the finer technical details for the time being, as the results will generally be satisfactory. There’s always room for improvement, of course. Anyone with high standards will eventually come across the zone system, but it would be nice if by then they’d at least taken around 1,000 ‘proper’ photos ;-) … With that in mind, please switch off your computer now and have fun taking photos in the sunshine! … ?Mirko

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