Ulf-Benno
Dear photography enthusiasts!
To kick off the photo forum, I’d like to start by introducing myself and putting my latest development techniques up for discussion. I’m an engineer from Potsdam, though I currently work mainly in Leipzig. I have been taking photographs with the ‘Praktika’ – financed by my confirmation money – for 30 years, ever since a suitor of my mother’s gave me a ‘Filmosto-Autofoc III’ enlarger (Dresden, circa 1955) shortly before. Although the device is very simple in terms of its optics and, due to its glass stage, a magnet for all manner of dust, But the mechanical autofocus, with its clear exposure time conversion scale, allows for very fast and comfortable working. Postcards from negative densities can be produced almost in mass quantities. The film stage from the ‘Krokus’ (a simple Polish enlarger) also fits here and is used by me when I can no longer keep the dust under control. At first, my interest lay solely in photographic technique and photochemistry. I tried out all kinds of film, developers and development methods. I exposed the film mainly to test sharpness and contrast. The people, plants, animals, buildings and machines I photographed were otherwise of secondary importance. Soon I began photographing all my relatives and acquaintances, and their acquaintances and relatives. The garden, the kitchen, the arbour, the workshop, the playground and, of course, celebrations always provided wonderful subjects for portraits of all kinds. It was only later that I realised what a photographic treasure I had amassed in this way, and I continue to photograph in this spirit to this day.
To still enjoy classic black-and-white photography in this age of digital madness, it is important to make use of every opportunity for quick and easy processing, above all to achieve a reliable and reproducible result. That is why I would like to take this opportunity to introduce my little developing machine and encourage discussion.
Film manufacturers prescribe not only the type of developer, time and temperature to users for achieving optimal results, but also the rhythm of movement within the developing tank. I know of no amateur who has adhered to the half-minute of turning or tilting. The first minute is usually supposed to involve continuous movement; after that, everyone actually does it differently. I used to hold the canister in my left hand and simply carry it about with me during my daily tasks until the alarm went off. Usually, however, the developer had become too warm from the heat of my hand by then. For several years now, however, I have been using the ‘foot spa development machine’ to achieve superbly consistent results with minimal effort. The device is available in many department stores for around 20 euros; it’s hardly suitable for foot baths, which is why you can usually find it unused in the A&V section. The device vibrates the footrest, pumps in air and, on top of that, heats it up a little. You just need to fill it with water at the right temperature and position the developing tins. It holds two. Unfortunately, the base isn’t level, so you have to use small pieces of wood to compensate. The device isn’t quiet – not to say it’s annoying – so you need to soundproof it with foam and household cloths. This makes the development very consistent and reproducible; the manufacturer’s specifications can be followed. The requirement for a minute of continuous movement is also met.
I hope this contributes to progress.
If there is already something better out there, I would of course be delighted to hear about it.
Best regards,
Ulf-Benno
Wolf_XL
...as an engineer, I find DIY solutions like that a nightmare – and as an engineer, you really ought to know better...
Urnes
Agitation is important. And you should start by following the manufacturer’s instructions. Heiland offers a machine that rotates the tins at the correct rate. Personally, I prefer rotary development because it saves on chemicals. For b/w, it’s enough to have the temperature at 20°C when pouring in the solution; the temperature in the can doesn’t drop that quickly. What you’re doing in the footbath is static development to balance the contrast – that’s a completely different matter.
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Regards, Sven.
Tandemfahren
But hang on, if it works and satisfies the urge to play as well, surely that’s a good thing?
For me (and apparently not just for me), however, it’s a solution for a problem I don’t have...
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To what extent shaking this supercalifragilistic contraption now replaces ‘proper’ tilting, or acts more like a rotation, or, as Sven suspects, is more akin to stand development, is something no one can really say off the cuff.
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We’re not at NASA, after all – the child in the man is allowed to come out every now and then!
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If Ulf-Benno’s pride has been piqued (and he’s got a few hours to kill), he’ll now carry out a comparative test with a few test strips, a magnifying glass and a densitometer. Have fun and let us know how it goes!
Olivinyl
... if the developing tank rocks back and forth (or dances gently) in the foot bath, does that mean this is a semi-stand development?
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The advantage of the whole process: no air bubbles on the film during development – they’re guaranteed to be ‘shaken off’
Disadvantage of foot bath development with Xtol: the foam that may form.
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:P
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Best regards, Oliver
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Tandemfahren
Say, Ulf-Benno, doesn't all that shaking make your photos out of focus...?? :-)
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If there's enough liquid in the tin, surely it shouldn't matter if it foams up?
Olivinyl
If there’s enough liquid in the can, surely it shouldn’t matter if it foams?
It would if it were a tilt-type developer (slightly overfilled), but with a semi-stand footbath developer... you might want to fit a pressure relief valve in the tank so the lid doesn’t fly off like a champagne bottle!
Oli
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:D
MirkoBoeddecker
Quote: "What you're doing in the footbath is static development to balance the contrast; that's a completely different matter."
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I don’t think so. The principle of stand development is based on the fact that the developer is locally depleted in those areas where it has darkened the negative more (in contrast to the areas where it has reduced it less, as it found fewer developable silver salt crystals there).
This allows the film to be developed more evenly and its speed to be increased.
Film generally contains 2–3 times as much silver as photographic paper and, unlike paper, is not fully developed. Development is stopped when the area of the negative that is no longer intended to be completely black is on the verge of reaching maximum density due to further development.
As this very process is slowed down by localised developer exhaustion during stand development, those areas where there are only a few silver halides with high developability (shadows in the image, where little light has fallen on the film) can be ‘processed’ relatively more intensely by the developer. This increases the speed.
This effect is already noticeable with a normal tilting rhythm (50 seconds stationary and 10 seconds tilting).
This is why rotary development is also not well suited for pushing and, for example, results in a loss of one DIN with the CMS 20.
Whether one rotates, tilts or shakes should not really matter when it comes to supplying the surface of the film with fresh developer. Shaking even has the advantage that no air is introduced.
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Incidentally, I think the machine is great. The problem with home processing, as described by the author, is the reproducibility of the results. The way a can is tilted varies from person to person. If everyone had a footbath-style developing setup, we could publish development times that no longer require adjustment.
Furthermore, all films would be developed more evenly and thus to a higher standard.
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The supply line to the shaker would need to be supplemented with a pulse generator featuring adjustable pulses and timing, and it would be useful to know the heating control range. If the device could maintain a constant 38 degrees, we’d have an automatic colour developer for 20 EUR!
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I’d love to see a picture of the device :D
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Best regards,
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Mirko
Morte
That would be a device like this, for example (although you can find it elsewhere for half the price). Unfortunately, there are no precise details about the temperature.
http://www.rossmannversand.de/produkt/298290/medisana-fusssprudelbad-wbw.aspx?id=107400
Wolf_XL
...yeah, you can grill your sausages with a magnifying glass, fasten your trousers with a pair of pliers, and develop films in coffee – I’m sure it all works... sort of... or something...
Morte
I don’t know what you want, Wolf … People like you are always going on about how you have to learn from your own experiences and develop your own methods. But when someone actually does that – and even writes about it – you suddenly start talking about some imaginary universal method that doesn’t actually exist … Personally, I find reports like that educational and interesting, even if I don’t try out everything they suggest.
MirkoBoeddecker
No, Wolf, I’m afraid you’ve missed the point. When it’s heating up, the thing will have some sort of thermostat, and the water bath will buffer the hysteresis sufficiently. The shaking won’t vary much in intensity either. So we’ve got a ‘parameter-stabilising machine’ for very little money. To stick with the sausage analogy, it would be like upgrading from a charcoal barbecue to a gas barbecue with temperature control and a hinged lid. Although the cooking result here shouldn’t be judged on taste, but strictly on the consistency of the desired ‘degree of doneness’.
As ridiculous as the contraption may look, compared to manual methods it’s a step forward.
At the top of the range, of course, is the new CPP, but not everyone can or wants to afford it.
Best regards,
Mirko
Wolf_XL
...I’m talking about something completely different here – if I’m going to call myself an engineer, then my methods should at least look the part... And in my view, that doesn’t include simply misusing random bits of kit. For 20 euros, you could also design something that better serves the intended purpose, makes no noise and is perhaps even genuinely innovative...
MirkoBoeddecker
For 20 euros, you could also design something that serves the intended purpose better, makes no noise and might even be genuinely innovative...
Well then, I’m curious to see what happens :)
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The ring is open.
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I’ll start:
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Aquarium pump
Heating element with thermostat
Tub
Pulse generator
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...but how do we move the can? An eccentric?
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Best regards,
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Mirko
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Klaus_H
... if I’m going to call myself an engineer, then my methods should at least look the part...
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Engineers (and not just them) rely on TAS!
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It’s reliable and delivers absolutely reproducible results (provided it’s used correctly).
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Best regards,
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Klaus
Photux
The idea of a foot spa sounds interesting; I’ll definitely keep that in mind.
Edit: Unwanted part of the post deleted.
Wolf_XL
...hello – the original post was about black-and-white film, not colour, and with standard chemicals you don’t need any sort of temperature control... The problem isn’t with the development process itself, but rather with the ‘operator’. He apparently can’t manage to tip the can every half a minute or so, as he writes...
Commander8x
1.) ...hello? .....
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2.) He doesn't seem to be able to manage to tip the can over every half or full minute, as he writes...
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Re 1: Are you on the phone with all of us???? :unsure:
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Re 2: Where the impetus for a new development (innovation) comes from is completely irrelevant.
And if you’ve got a development method that works for you, there’s no need to change...
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I’m more bothered by the term ‘bubble bath’. If air is really bubbling through it, the developer solution probably won’t last; it oxidises too quickly – doesn’t it?
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Regards, Matthias
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TiMo
I’m actually more bothered by the term ‘bubble bath’. If air is really bubbling through it, the developing solution probably won’t be able to handle it – it’ll oxidise too quickly, won’t it?
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Hi Matthias,
He puts the development tray into the bubbling bath. The developer doesn’t come into contact with the bubbles.
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Cheers, Tim
Wolf_XL
...the thread starter asked everyone what they thought of his method – and I answered honestly that I personally don’t think much of it. What’s so bad about that??? :?: :?:
