TiMo
I had a go at lith printing yesterday. Naturally, a few questions cropped up.
I used MCP paper to start with, as I didn’t want to use too much of the good baryta paper for experiments.
I used Moersch Easy Lith at a dilution of 1:40 at 26 degrees.
I now doubt whether my choice of subject was the best. It’s a very high-contrast image with few mid-tones.
First image:
First, I made a reasonably decent print in standard developer to get some approximate times. The exposure was 20 seconds at f/16 and grade 2.
Second image:
I then made a print in Easy Lith using the same exposure time and aperture as in image 1, but without a filter. Not much effect visible yet. That was to be expected given the low light. Development time approx. 8 minutes.
Third image:
Aperture 11, 50 seconds. It’s not very clear on the scan, but the image is slightly more colourful. A light brown tone (barely visible on the scan, but very clear in real life). Quite muddy and low in contrast.
Fourth image:
Aperture 8, 30 seconds. The whole image is slightly darker than image 3. Also muddy and low in contrast.
I deliberately didn’t change the dilution so I could focus solely on the exposure. As I understand it, more light requires a more diluted developer. Long exposure tends to make the print more colourful.
My questions are now:
- Would a richer developer make the shadows deeper?
- Am I perhaps on the wrong track and – no matter what I do – will I not get the result I want with the MCP because it isn’t really suitable for lith prints?
- Is the subject not particularly good for testing because it already has such strong contrast and few mid-tones?
I’m still a bit in the dark at the moment because the paper seems to play a big role in lith prints, and I’m not sure if I’ll ever get rich blacks with the MCP.
Thanks and best regards,
Tim
michael-kielgmxnet
Hi Tim,
ADOX MCP is an excellent paper, but unfortunately it isn’t really suitable for direct lith development. I’ve only used it once myself, with a fairly strong dilution (I think it was about 1+10). The result was roughly similar to your third scan in terms of colour. All in all, I wouldn’t use it for lith development again.
What works brilliantly with this paper, however, is indirect lith development, i.e. developing in standard paper developer, bleaching, and then re-developing in a heavily diluted lith developer (around 1+100). As the bleaching and re-development are carried out in daylight, you can observe the process very clearly. If you’re interested in the process, I’d recommend taking a look at Mr Moersch’s website, where everything is described in great detail and there are examples to see.
For direct lith development, I would recommend Fomatone MG for beginners; it develops excellently and is easy to control via dilution and exposure. Adox Nuance is also excellent, but unfortunately, due to Fotokemika ceasing trading, it is now only available in limited stock.
TiMo
Hi Michael,
I was actually just having a bit of a play around; that’s why I didn’t buy any paper that’s known to be good for lith. I’ve got MCC and MCP here.
Indirect development sounds interesting. But I’ll have to put that on hold for now, as I don’t have a bleach.
You mention that MCP isn’t very good for lith. I’m curious to know why you say that. Is it because I can’t get the paper dark enough, or does it fail to take on any colour?
Thanks and best regards,
Tim
michael-kielgmxnet
Hi Tim,
In my experience, you don’t get the typical lith effect with MCP; I suspect that with this paper, the infectious development characteristic of lith isn’t present, or at least is significantly slowed down. The colour is very subtle, and you need a lot of patience to get the shadows right. All in all, it’s not really worth the effort; you can achieve the slightly warm tone with a standard warm-tone developer as well.
But if you’ve got the MCC as well, why not give that a go? It’s supposed to be much better suited (though I haven’t tried it myself yet).
TiMo
Hi Michael,
Thanks. I suppose I’ll have to go for the good old MCC after all.
Best regards, Tim
Urnes
Hi Tim,
Leaving the paper aside for a moment, try lowering the temperature to 26°C. Otherwise, the developer works too quickly and becomes uncontrollable. The image ends up looking too graphic. Take a look here:
http://so-froehlich..../02/rawalb5.jpg The negative certainly has mid-tones, but at 36°C the developer was simply too warm. If you go down to 26°, the
development time will need to increase significantly, though. I’d guess around 20 minutes.
Regards, Sven.
TiMo
Hi Sven,
That was a typo (now corrected); it was, of course, 26 degrees, as you recommended.
The development time for the later pictures was always around 10 minutes. Then nothing happened for a long time, so I took them out of the developer.
Best regards, Tim
TiMo
I have now tried the same thing with MCC paper.
The dilution was 1:40. Temperature: 26 degrees.
The exposures were f/8 for 20 seconds, f/8 for 40 seconds and f/5.6 for 40 seconds.
The photos were all developed at the same time to eliminate the influence of diminishing developer action. Below is the photo taken at f/8 for 40s. The others look almost exactly the same. They were developed for a few minutes longer or shorter. The colour saturation is slightly higher in the long-exposure shots; that’s how it’s supposed to be.
This looks better than the MCP. On the monitor, however, the colours aren’t quite right. In real life, it’s ivory yellow/light beige; actually quite nice. Unfortunately, I don’t have anything to compare it with that’s particularly well-suited to lith development.
Michael, according to Moersch, the Fomatone isn’t supposed to be that great for this in the newer batches either. My next candidate would be Adox Variotone. Do you have any experience with that?
Thanks and best regards,
Tim
TR
Hi Timo, that’s looking good so far.
I’ve actually got a large stock of the old ORWO paper left over specifically for lith printing (haven’t thrown it away yet). It works absolutely brilliantly with lith developers and is always quite cheap on eBay (most of it is ‘heavyweight’, though – but that has its own charm). For standard developers, most ORWO papers are certainly no longer suitable due to age-related grey haze and the gradient ‘sliding’ towards a softer look. In the Easylith, the paper develops towards a brown tone, and with a subsequent selenium toner, you can deepen the blacks quite a bit further.
TiMo
Hi Thomas,
You’re right, that’s a good use for old paper.
However, I’d rather wait until a suitable paper comes back on the market (Polywarmton?). I don’t live in Germany, so eBay and Orwo paper aren’t an option for me.
Have you had any experience with Adox Variotone?
Best regards, Tim
michael-kielgmxnet
Hi Tim,
The Adox Variotone isn’t really suitable for direct lith printing either, just like the Ilford Warmtone, on whose emulsion it is based. However, when used indirectly – i.e. with reverse development – you can achieve very nice results with it.
Yes, the old Orwo paper is very well suited to lith printing. I myself use Orwo BBN (Baryt Brilliant) from time to time with very good results.
Where exactly do you live? Actually, there are quite a few types of paper available to buy everywhere that are suitable for lith printing. Incidentally, according to the latest information from Moersch, the current Fomatone MG is indeed suitable for the lith process; you just have to work with a higher dilution. The other baryta papers from Foma work just as well as their counterparts from Rollei (Rollei Vintage). Ilford has the relatively new Art paper, which is also suitable but unfortunately quite expensive.
And then, as I said, there are the remaining stocks from Fotokemika, namely ADOX Nuance or Emacs. But those are likely to be sold out soon too.
TiMo
Hi Michael,
I suppose I’ll have to give reverse development a go then. Which bleach should I use for this (hexacyanoferrate-based or potassium hexacyanoferrate/bromide)?
How long should I bleach for, roughly? Until only the highlights are gone, or until the mid-tones have been affected too?
I haven’t found anything on the subject of indirect lith development in Moersch.
I live in Fujiland. However, I buy my photographic supplies almost exclusively from the forum host. The only paper that springs to mind is Seagull.
Thanks and best regards,
Tim
michael-kielgmxnet
Hi Tim,
So far, I’ve only used the copper sulphate-based developer from Moersch (blue lith developer), which is also available here in the shop. The duration of the bleaching process depends on the dilution and the result you want to achieve. You can bleach the entire print or just parts of it. If you leave the shadows during bleaching, they won’t be developed afterwards either. However, I haven’t tried partial bleaching yet.
TiMo
I’ve now found the instructions on Moersch’s website after all. They aren’t listed under ‘Know-how’, but are scattered amongst the sample photos.
Here are the links:
http://www.moersch-p.../galerie/red/12
http://www.moersch-p...t/galerie/red/8
http://www.moersch-p.../galerie/red/25
http://www.moersch-p...nt/shop/lith/97
Update 1 February 2013
Unfortunately, the tips on reverse development linked above have since disappeared from Mr Moersch’s website and there is now only a link to the shop page. However, the explanation there is no longer as detailed as it was previously under the photos.
sputnik
Incidentally, according to the latest information from Moersch, the current Fomatone MG is indeed suitable for the lith process; you just need to use a higher dilution.
The current Fomatone also works just as well in high-oil dilutions. It simply comes out less orange and more yellowish than before.
