Robin_
Hello everyone on the forum,
Before I get started, I’d like to introduce myself briefly. My name is Robin, I’m 23 years old and I’ve been a ‘home developer’ for just under a year now.
So, now to my question. I took a few family photos in the spring and gave them to my mother-in-law as a present. When I was
visiting her yesterday, I had another look at the photos. I noticed that the edge of the photo – that is, just before the image transitions into the white border
– is slightly brownish (about 1mm). But only at the edge. There’s nothing to see in the centre of the image. Did I perhaps fix it for too short a time? I use Tetenal Superfix 1+9 and aim for a fixing time of around 2 minutes. I also do the fixing time test at regular intervals. That should normally be enough. The prints in question are on PE paper.
I haven’t experienced anything like this with my photos before. (Though they aren’t hanging on the wall either).
Thanks in advance. Best regards,
Robin
piu58
What sort of paper is that? Foma? It tends to do that. You can’t use it for prints that are meant to hang on the wall behind glass for a long time.
Foma probably uses the paper base for colour paper, which contains TiO2. This – as has long been known – causes image degradation. (This comes from a discussion with Mirko, who knows all the paper manufacturers for PE: there’s actually only one worldwide.)
Robin_
Oh, that’s interesting. Yes, one of the prints is definitely Fomaspeed, but the other one might possibly be Ilford. I can’t say for sure anymore.
Do all Foma papers behave like this, or just certain PE types?
The only way to prevent this is by putting the pictures in an album rather than hanging them on the wall, isn’t it?
Best regards
Olivinyl
Hi everyone,
That’s interesting. I was planning to stock up on some new PE paper at the end of the year.
I would have gone for MCP in 10x15, 13x18 and 18x24, though.
What role does titanium dioxide play in inkjet paper?
Is the “cheap” PE backing on the inkjet paper responsible for the price difference?
Best wishes, Oli
piu58
> Is the "cheap" colour paper PE backing responsible for the price difference?
Probably. Colour paper is, after all, produced in much larger quantities.
> Titanium dioxide for a specific purpose
As a white primer, instead of barium sulphate ("Bayt").
I’ve also observed the behaviour you described with Foma paper. It’s quite common for “family photos” to be left behind glass somewhere for years on end. Ctein described this in detail in his 2000 book “Post Exposure”. In the 90s, Ctein conducted large-scale experiments on this topic. Selenium toners avoid the problem, by the way; probably even just Sistan.
Agfa (which was still around back then) also carried out experiments, confirmed Ctein’s observations and changed the paper composition. Ilford replaced the TiO₂ in 2004. I don’t know anything about Kodak, but that’s all in the past. The problem was “considered solved”.
Foma probably uses colour-bearing paper. As the TiO2 reacts with the silver but not with the colorants, it doesn’t cause any issues with colour paper. As I said, there is only one manufacturer of TiO₂-free base paper (Schüller in Weißenborn), and their paper is slightly thicker than Foma’s. You can easily check this by comparing Foma-MCC or, for all I care, Foma-Ilford. Mirko has scoured the market and found no other paper manufacturer. This suggests that Foma uses colour-carrying paper. Of course, it hasn’t been proven.
Robin_
Thanks in advance for all the info. I’m already a bit wiser now. I was actually planning to hang up a few of my pictures
. I’ll just have to see how long they last :spudnikwinky: .
Best wishes,
Robin
bernhardmangelsgmxde
Doesn't the current Foma use the same base as all the others? (I think I read something along those lines somewhere)
piu58
> Doesn't the current Foma use the same base as all the others?
You just need to compare them – it's a bit thinner.
bernhardmangelsgmxde
My supplies are running low... S. Junghans mentioned a changeover:
http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17527&p=171695
Fomaspeed can also be processed by machine with excellent results,
especially the Vintage 314 (fine grain, glossy) runs beautifully through the Thermaphot.
I would perhaps be a little cautious with the 310 variant,
as Foma is currently in the process of switching from a paper base that is comparatively
very (too) thin compared to Ilford’s to a variant comparable to Ilford’s.
Renate
In which layer is the titanium located? If I can expose the layer, I will analyse it.
In previous experiments, I had found that free oxygen alters the silver. However, the effect also depended on the duration of the washing process. I therefore wash my paper much more thoroughly than is specified in the literature. My prints on Foma-PE paper in picture frames are slowly turning grey. No brownish discolouration is visible.
Best regards
Renate
Robin_
I’ve got another question about the paper while we’re on the subject. I recently got three boxes of
Agfa Record Rapid from a friend. Two of them were still unopened. Naturally, I wanted to test the paper straight away. But after exposure, the paper always turns
grey. So there’s an image on it, but the residue isn’t white anymore. I’ve never had that happen with any other paper. If I unscrew the modern Duka bulb
and just leave the old carbon-filament bulb on, it gets a bit better. But it doesn’t disappear completely either. What’s the reason for that? Too old? Stray light? But I haven’t noticed stray light with any
other paper so far.
Regards,
Robin
ThomasPauly
This fogging is typical of overlaid material. As far as I can remember, Record Rapid was discontinued more than 15 years ago. In that respect, the result is not surprising.
Robin_
Right, I've got it then.
piu58
> In which emulsion is the titanium located?
On the paper, beneath the gelatin. As an optical brightening layer.
Robin_
Hello forum members,
I have an important question that’s been asked many times in various ways, but it’s not always clear what the answer is.
I exposed, developed and fixed an Ilford Delta 3200. When I took it out of the canister, I noticed that it looked quite ‘grey’ (the film base).
I developed it in Rodinal 1+25 (I know, many say it makes the grain too coarse, etc.), stopped it down and fixed it for 4 minutes in brand-new Tetenal Superfix Plus 1+4. The clearing time was 1 min, so 4 mins should be enough. Then I rinsed it for 15 mins in Jobo Cascade. Is it normal for it to be so grey? I made a few prints today and that wasn’t a problem.
But I’d really appreciate some advice.
Regards, Robin
k-g
In my experience, that’s quite normal for the Delta 3200.
Best regards,
Karl-Gustaf
TR
How old is the film? A grey haze is normal with material (film and paper) that is too old.
piu58
(Duplicate post)
Robin_
Well, I bought it a week ago and fell in love with it straight away. I didn't check the best-before date.
piu58
> Which emulsion is the titanium in … I’ll analyse it.
Under the gelatin, above the paper.
